Lionel 022 Switch

[T-Man]

The switch, notice to the right the slide did not go all the way to the right. When operating the bar on the left or right provides a connection. A simple way to test (off the track)the switch is to place the center rail contact from the transformer to the power post and use the u contact to each outer terminal on the switch. This grounds the coil to activate the switch one outer terminal one direction.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/gallery/files/3/5/2/022left.jpg
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/gallery/files/3/5/2/022right.jpg

[T-Man]

To control the switch three wires are needed .One for each post. The controller swictch just grounds one outer post to the center post.

NEAT TRICK is to eliminate the center post connection.
Why run a wire all the way back to the switch??
Have all your controllers lined up and the center post wires connected together and attached to the U terminal. The controllers are probably next to your transformer anyway.

The switches will work better with the shorter ground.

I found the complete parts lists for the switch in the Lionel Supplementals 1-9 page 471 by adobe reader.

[T-Man]

Actually not bats but the basses to the switches. It takes an 1/8 nutdriver to remove a couple of sheet metal screws to access the underside. That way I removed the rails for cleaning. This is extreme but the rust was bad. SO far I have on good motor out of three. One is broken at the lamp base the other is missing a switch connector.

The next picture is a cleaned piece, big difference.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1815&stc=1&d=1267066029...http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1816&stc=1&d=1267066029

Here is a starter waiting for cleaning.
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1818&stc=1&d=1267066029...http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1819&stc=1&d=1267066029

The easiest way to test the motor coils is by using two leads. Connect one to the center red and one to a green to test. There are two, one for each direction. The rivet to the left between the green and red, is the feed from the track. The wire from the red, to the right is for the lamp.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1817&stc=1&d=1267066029

[T-Man]

Rewired today. Struck while the iron was hot. The motor didn't test out, I have to check some connections. The coils work but I think the problem is in the slide connections.
I didn't finish the eunit today.


http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1826&stc=1&d=1267122761...http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1827&stc=1&d=1267122761

Here is an idea, how you can improve with just a little paint.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1828&stc=1&d=1267122761...http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1829&stc=1&d=1267122761

[T-Man]

The green arrow shows two sets of tabs. The left is for auto derailing and remains insulated from the rest. The bar gets soldered to the left. I checked these for continuity before installling the cover. One wire is replaced.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1856&stc=1&d=1267320732...http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1857&stc=1&d=1267320732


The copper piece is an insert conecting the two outer rails.
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1858&stc=1&d=1267320732...http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1859&stc=1&d=1267321233

[T-Man]

I had one bad terminal and replaced it with a 4 -4- screw. I do not have any 4-36 screws.
I saved the plastic with super glue.

Next is the spring adjust If you have to touch the spring to make it work,instead of trying to make the spring work harder by bending. I went underneath and pushed the plate up for contact.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1864&stc=1&d=1267377888...http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1865&stc=1&d=1267377888

Of course to test, power to the center and the second touches a terminal to operate.
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1866&stc=1&d=1267377888

[T-Man]

I am busy cleaning switches. Not much excitement. Out of 7 in a box. One was a manual right. Another had no motor. I can get 4 motors working. One had a broken terminal that was replaced. The lamp swivel was missing a tooth and was removed. This switch will work without it. One motor was missing a copper spring connector that needs a rivet to replace. Non fixable at this time. So I can get four working. I am cleaning all of them and will keep an eye out for motors and parts. SO far after cleaning 15 switches I have yet to find one with a bad coil.

My process for the rusty ones

Remove screws, motor and back plate. clean and dry lub fasteners.

Motor:
Inspect for missing pieces Be sure not to loose the tiny spring required for the lock bar!!!
sand and paint underside.
remove wires including bulb wire
clean the plate
dry lube the plate(prevent rusting)(remember graphite conducts electricity) DO not use on coils or on the insulating paper under the slide contacts.
mod podge the paper on the coils
Clean electrical connections on the slide
test coils
add wires
test motor

switch:
unsolder joints remove wire
remove rails
Wire brush rails
scrub frog and a contact bar on switch
soapy water wash switch
remove rust on bottom contacts
assemble rails
solder joints and add new wire
Add paper to insulate contacts from the bottom plate with date serviced.
add bottom plate after sanding and painting
assemble whole switch and test. Add pins.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1911&stc=1&d=1267639124...http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1912&stc=1&d=1267639124

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1913&stc=1&d=1267639124....http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1914&stc=1&d=1267639124

[Stillakid]

T-Man, tell us the truth, what do you do in your, "Spare Time?":)
I don't think I have the patience to do that kind of intricate work(much less the memory!)

[Stillakid]

By The way, "Nice Job!!!!"

[T-Man]

It's easy after 3 or 4. I refer to the manual occasionally. These are the worst I have seen. The ebays( first time) were listed as junk, and I didn't have to take one apart. Beats paying 30 for each one. I guess this is one area where to draw the line and ask is it worth it? To me ,it is, just to prove it can be done.

[theedudenator]

How are you cleaning the rails?
What type of wire brush should I get?

[T-Man]

A wire brush mounted on a motor is heavy duty . A wire wheel will work with track. Because of the plastic I removed the rails and did them piecemeal. A good grip is required. The safer way is to use scotchbrite pads or a dremel wire wheel.Dremel also makes a stripping wheel of scotchbrite that may work too because of it's size.

This is my antique. I use only with severe rust. This brush was only a dollar at big lots. It has cleaned about 5 switches so far.


http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1731&d=1266607105

[tjcruiser]

And leather gloves, and goggles, right ...

I used a brass brush wheel mounted in my drill press to clean some track, recently. Worked nice on the outer layer of heavy rust. But leather gloves for a strong grip and goggles to keep my peepers safe seemed like a must.

[RichT]

Goggles yes.... those flying wires will really do some damage.... and wear shot sleeves and take off the tie :)

I use a flip down face shield.... since I got a wire into my forehead once...

T-man, Wow that is a serious tool ya got there.... rust doesn't stand a chance

[T-Man]

I like it because I can slow it with pressure. It can grab and fling. I am currently revampiing it.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1963&stc=1&d=1268158333...http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1964&stc=1&d=1268158333

I bet I could pull some cars with a 120 v motor!!!!!!!!! 1/50 hp.

[T-Man]

I did locate a manual switch lever for an 042 manual switch. I thought I would share in it's complexity.:)


http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2577&stc=1&d=1272075461...http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2578&stc=1&d=1272075461

[T-Man]

The motor after I cleaned it, painted the exterior and changed the plug. I also oiled the board too.


http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2579&stc=1&d=1272075818

[big ed]

You ought to put this on a DVD/CD and market it along with all your other fix-it threads!:D:thumbsup:

Or a book? (manual)
Got to have lots of color pictures. Everyone loves pictures along with an explained detailed description.

THE T_MAN SUPER DUPER REPAIR manual/plus.

Now the big question?

Where you going to put all of the switches?:rolleyes::laugh:

Plus it's one thing getting them all in tip top shape, but with old switches the important thing is how do they operate with a train running through them. I have some issues with certain things running through some of mine. Nothing like a nice new switch. I just wish they weren't that darn expensive!

Heck I would bet your book would be better then some of the Classic Toy Train manuals that they put out! Did you ever see some of them?:thumbsdown:

I will be your marketing agent.:D

I like the old manual switches. I got a few some where.:rolleyes:

I want to add I am no way putting down your work, those babies look like new considering how they looked in the first place.:thumbsup::D

I will send you a box to do for me.:laugh:

[tjcruiser]

T-Man,

VERY nice job on that motor. My memory's a bit fuzzy here, but that armature and windings looks very similar to the motor that's in our old Electrolux vacuum cleaner! The thing's ancient, and runs like a charm!

Nice springs in the switch lever ... high tech, huh?!? :rolleyes:

Big Ed ... per your comment ...

I have some issues with certain things running through some of mine. Nothing like a nice new switch.

I have "issues", too ... but with relatively NEW Lionel manual switches. I had just posted this comment on another thread, but I'll repeat it here, if that's OK ...

"I've just begun running my old Lionel locos (1668 prewar, 221 postwar) on relatively new Lionel manual switches ... the brown kind ... I can't remember the part number right now. Both of these locos are having problems running over the switches. The trailing trucks appear to be making electric contact with both the center (hot) rail and the outer (ground) rail as they drive over the middle section of the switch, where things split left/right. It causes a short, which makes the "smart" transformer drop voltage, which -- in turn -- makes the E-unit switch direction. A bit frustrating. I need to explore exactly what touching what in more detail to investigate and debug."

As stated, I need to do a bit more detective work, but somethings causing a short when these old locos run the new switch.

Any specific things I should be looking for?

Thanks guys!!!

TJ

[big ed]

T-Man,

VERY nice job on that motor. My memory's a bit fuzzy here, but that armature and windings looks very similar to the motor that's in our old Electrolux vacuum cleaner! The thing's ancient, and runs like a charm!

Nice springs in the switch lever ... high tech, huh?!? :rolleyes:

Big Ed ... per your comment ...



I have "issues", too ... but with relatively NEW Lionel manual switches. I had just posted this comment on another thread, but I'll repeat it here, if that's OK ...

"I've just begun running my old Lionel locos (1668 prewar, 221 postwar) on relatively new Lionel manual switches ... the brown kind ... I can't remember the part number right now. Both of these locos are having problems running over the switches. The trailing trucks appear to be making electric contact with both the center (hot) rail and the outer (ground) rail as they drive over the middle section of the switch, where things split left/right. It causes a short, which makes the "smart" transformer drop voltage, which -- in turn -- makes the E-unit switch direction. A bit frustrating. I need to explore exactly what touching what in more detail to investigate and debug."

As stated, I need to do a bit more detective work, but somethings causing a short when these old locos run the new switch.

Any specific things I should be looking for?

Thanks guys!!!

TJ

Are these the switches?

2582

The only problem I have with these is that some of my older engines jump the rail sometimes going through them.
And others go through just fine.
I bought them new too.
I don't really like the way they throw the switch and hold the point tight.:thumbsdown:

I would think it's in your engine somehow. Do you have any newer engines to run through them?

[T-Man]

For switches I first used some 1122's. All but one gave me some trouble. I never attempted to fix it.
Then I got the o22's. I had a plan to use ten of them. That was the original goal. I got a group of 9 and revamped them. This batch was the second generation of revamping so I improved techniques. The 022 is a well designed switch, I don't think I will have operation problems but I do have one on the track for engine testing. I think my weak point is the controllers I have a few to check out and I don't have enough for all of them. I mostly have the dual controllers not the single. It's something I have to look at. Now, I have plenty of switches and with the 022 the motor section is interchangeable.

I did get some repro lights for the o21 green manual switches. When I get time I will fix and post.

A book? I imagine they get started like this. After you try a bunch of different things and answer questions. Now? Who's got the time. I haven't got any CTT How to's. Once or twice they ran a parallel course with us but it could be coincidental. Then again I read there and learn plus I give them where their credit is due. Over there they are set in their ways, here I encourage the odd path, plus I am not trying to get published or noticed by any magazine.Here I am just trying to support the hobby.

[big ed]

For switches I first used some 1122's. All but one gave me some trouble. I never attempted to fix it.
Then I got the o22's. I had a plan to use ten of them. That was the original goal. I got a group of 9 and revamped them. This batch was the second generation of revamping so I improved techniques. The 022 is a well designed switch, I don't think I will have operation problems but I do have one on the track for engine testing. I think my weak point is the controllers I have a few to check out and I don't have enough for all of them. I mostly have the dual controllers not the single. It's something I have to look at. Now, I have plenty of switches and with the 022 the motor section is interchangeable.

I did get some repro lights for the o21 green manual switches. When I get time I will fix and post.

A book? I imagine they get started like this. After you try a bunch of different things and answer questions. Now? Who's got the time. I haven't got any CTT How to's. Once or twice they ran a parallel course with us but it could be coincidental. Then again I read there and learn plus I give them where their credit is due. Over there they are set in their ways, here I encourage the odd path, plus I am not trying to get published or noticed by any magazine.Here I am just trying to support the hobby.

I guess that means I can't be your marketing agent?:(

I like the duel controllers for some reason.
Maybe it's because I had a bunch of them that just needed rewiring.:rolleyes:
The only thing that's tough to find is the rubber lens markers. I don't like the replacements they make, it's not the same color as the original lens covers.

[tjcruiser]

Big Ed, T-Man,

Yes, that's the same newer "brown" Lionel switches that I have. Look at my edited picture below. Green is outer common rails. Red is middle hot rail. Blue is my typical trailing loco truck (the 2 on a 4-6-2, for example). As the loco is driving through the switch, it appears that the truck has just enough left/right slop/play/wiggle-room such that the WHEEL on the truck makes contact with BOTH the green-common and the red-hot portions of the circuit at the forked transition shown in the YELLOW CIRCLE ... right where the triangular flat metal plate (common) is in close proximity to the long-deardrop curved central rail (hot).

I'm not sure WHY this is happening ... gauge on my truck/wheels need to be adjusted? Not enough up/or down tension in the truck spring? Other suggestions as to what I should be looking for???

Thanks for any clues ...

TJ

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2588&stc=1&d=1272152543

[big ed]

Big Ed, T-Man,

Yes, that's the same newer "brown" Lionel switches that I have. Look at my edited picture below. Green is outer common rails. Red is middle hot rail. Blue is my typical trailing loco truck (the 2 on a 4-6-2, for example). As the loco is driving through the switch, it appears that the truck has just enough left/right slop/play/wiggle-room such that the WHEEL on the truck makes contact with BOTH the green-common and the red-hot portions of the circuit at the forked transition shown in the YELLOW CIRCLE ... right where the triangular flat metal plate (common) is in close proximity to the long-deardrop curved central rail (hot).

I'm not sure WHY this is happening ... gauge on my truck/wheels need to be adjusted? Not enough up/or down tension in the truck spring? Other suggestions as to what I should be looking for???

Thanks for any clues ...

TJ

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2588&stc=1&d=1272152543

I wonder if a plastic pin on the common rail would work?
Maybe turn your track connector so the other rail is the ground?

I asked.......Do you have any other engines besides them to run through the switches? :rolleyes:

Maybe something a little newer?

[T-Man]

The center hot piece is not suppose to be isolated from the moving part underneath. You only need the top to contact the center roller. Try to place electrical tape on the side of it next to the rail. so the outer rail wheel won't set back and touch it. That' all I can see.

[tjcruiser]

Big Ed & T-Man,

Thanks much for thoughts. Responses ...

1. I'm running all old locos ... Scout-like 249, streamliner 221, streamliner 1668. The 249 runs through pretty cleanly, but the 221 and the 1668 have problems over the switches. Both of those have non-roller pickup shoes. However, I think the "short circuit" problem is with one of the trucks (front or rear), as described above.

2. Big Ed stated: "I wonder if a plastic pin on the common rail would work? Maybe turn your track connector so the other rail is the ground?" I'm not quite sure I completely follow you here ... I need the middle rail as "hot", right???

3. T-Man ... I like your electrical tape idea. In fact, when I first saw the problem (actually saw sparks at the point of short circuit), I then cut a little wedge-sliver of electrical tape and stuck it on top of the flat triangular-shaped plate shown inside the yellow circle above. That DID help a bit, for sure. I.e., the truck/wheels (sketched as BLUE) still bounce around, but they short less frequently because I've covered over (with tape) a region of the ground. That said ...

4. Your idea to "place electrical tape on the side of it next to the rail so the outer rail wheel won't set back and touch it" might work even better. I was thinking inner wheel was problem, but I think you're right ... outer wheel is causing short, too.

Sorry to be longwinded here, but I'm thinking this through in my mind as I type.

Is it too "cheezy" of a fix for me to rely on the electrical tape ... or is it simply a case of "whatever works ... works!" ???

Thanks guys!!!

TJ

[big ed]

Big Ed & T-Man,

Thanks much for thoughts. Responses ...

1. I'm running all old locos ... Scout-like 249, streamliner 221, streamliner 1668. The 249 runs through pretty cleanly, but the 221 and the 1668 have problems over the switches. Both of those have non-roller pickup shoes. However, I think the "short circuit" problem is with one of the trucks (front or rear), as described above.

2. Big Ed stated: "I wonder if a plastic pin on the common rail would work? Maybe turn your track connector so the other rail is the ground?" I'm not quite sure I completely follow you here ... I need the middle rail as "hot", right???

3. T-Man ... I like your electrical tape idea. In fact, when I first saw the problem (actually saw sparks at the point of short circuit), I then cut a little wedge-sliver of electrical tape and stuck it on top of the flat triangular-shaped plate shown inside the yellow circle above. That DID help a bit, for sure. I.e., the truck/wheels (sketched as BLUE) still bounce around, but they short less frequently because I've covered over (with tape) a region of the ground. That said ...

4. Your idea to "place electrical tape on the side of it next to the rail so the outer rail wheel won't set back and touch it" might work even better. I was thinking inner wheel was problem, but I think you're right ... outer wheel is causing short, too.

Sorry to be longwinded here, but I'm thinking this through in my mind as I type.

Is it too "cheezy" of a fix for me to rely on the electrical tape ... or is it simply a case of "whatever works ... works!" ???

Thanks guys!!!

TJ

I used to use a liquid electric tape goo on connections in my boat.
You could just paint it on the rail.

I guess the plastic insulated pin wouldn't work and flipping the connector won't do anything.

[tjcruiser]

Ohhh ... liquid elec tape ... I like that. Available at most typical hardware stores? Marine supply stores?

[big ed]

Ohhh ... liquid elec tape ... I like that. Available at most typical hardware stores? Marine supply stores?

I saw it in the Marine supply store when buying some other stuff for the boat.
You might want to try what T said with the electrical tape to see if it works before you waste your money.

Does it do it in only one direction?
Did you try running through the switch the other direction?

I still think it's in the engine somehow.

[tjcruiser]

Big Ed,

The truth is, I really haven't spent enough time investigating the root source of the problem and exploring this-way / that-way options. I'll need to do that more thoroughly.

My quick-fix (to get around the track) was a couple of strips of tape, but I think my next step will be to remove a rear truck, and roll it (by hand) through the switches with my multimeter in hand to check for specific wheel-to-rail sources of electrical shorts. I'm hoping it'll be easier to "see" things with just the truck, rather than trying to squeeze a glance under the moving loco, cab, frame, etc.

Thanks, again for the tip on the liquid stuff ... I didn't know there was something like that available. We have a good marine supply store here in town. But I'll try the tape route, first, as you suggest.

T-Man and Big Ed ... my apologies for having diverted this 022 thread into this dialog concerning my Lionel switch issues. I figure if I can't steer my trains, at can at least steer a conversation! :laugh:

Thanks VERY much for your thoughts and input ... I really appreciate the insight!

TJ

[big ed]

Big Ed,

The truth is, I really haven't spent enough time investigating the root source of the problem and exploring this-way / that-way options. I'll need to do that more thoroughly.

My quick-fix (to get around the track) was a couple of strips of tape, but I think my next step will be to remove a rear truck, and roll it (by hand) through the switches with my multimeter in hand to check for specific wheel-to-rail sources of electrical shorts. I'm hoping it'll be easier to "see" things with just the truck, rather than trying to squeeze a glance under the moving loco, cab, frame, etc.

Thanks, again for the tip on the liquid stuff ... I didn't know there was something like that available. We have a good marine supply store here in town. But I'll try the tape route, first, as you suggest.

T-Man and Big Ed ... my apologies for having diverted this 022 thread into this dialog concerning my Lionel switch issues. I figure if I can't steer my trains, at can at least steer a conversation! :laugh:

Thanks VERY much for your thoughts and input ... I really appreciate the insight!

TJ


Don't you know that you can't steer a train?:D:rolleyes:


Your only on for the ride.:D

[T-Man]

maybe I should reread the problem. Scouts are known to have trouble crossing switches. It has to do with the distance of contacts. To prove this remove the front and rear trucks to the engine and see how it passes. Maybe these trucks need to isolated fron the frame. The Scout does require more speed to pass through.
An oppossing curve does not help since weight is shifted back and forth. A straight is needed in between.

The play on the trucks? Are they moving too much to the center. I had some homemade axles that allowed to much play on the wheel.

At last, slide pickups. They can be bent for a smoother ride.


Technically you can add a capacitor to get over rough spots. They discharge to keep the eunit from cycling. I used a similar one for my lighting of the caboose. Either way you may have to visit CTT to research the switch or capacitor for the e unit.

[big ed]

maybe I should reread the problem. Scouts are known to have trouble crossing switches. It has to do with the distance of contacts. To prove this remove the front and rear trucks to the engine and see how it passes. Maybe these trucks need to isolated fron the frame. The Scout does require more speed to pass through.
An oppossing curve does not help since weight is shifted back and forth. A straight is needed in between.

The play on the trucks? Are they moving too much to the center. I had some homemade axles that allowed to much play on the wheel.

At last, slide pickups. They can be bent for a smoother ride.


Technically you can add a capacitor to get over rough spots. They discharge to keep the eunit from cycling. I used a similar one for my lighting of the caboose. Either way you may have to visit CTT to research the switch or capacitor for the e unit.

What is CTT?

[T-Man]

Classic Toy Trains at trains.com They are connected to the magazine.

[gunrunnerjohn]

Interesting topic. I've been reconditioning a bunch of 022 switches, but I don't get nearly this wild! :D

I have found that the key things are usually the contacts, and all of the crimped track joints under the platform. I use my Dremel brush on them and then solder all the joints. Cleaning the ground contact between the switch body and the motor is another area. Finally, I lube the switch, clean the contacts, and of course remove any rust.

I also don't even attempt a switch that looks like the one you posted above! :D So far, I've picked up a dozen 022 switches for my layout, and only one I couldn't get working, it was just too far gone. I'll be using it for parts if I need them...

[big ed]

Gun,
Hurry get yours today.
I only have 5 autographed copies left of the,

T-MANS TRAIN FIX ALL MANUAL

1001 fix's of O gauge.

256 color photographs
467 B&W


Soft cover / first edition.:D:thumbsup:
only $29.99

Soon to be on CD
along with a special additional free CD containing, Classic T-man U tubes how to do's.:thumbsup:

[T-Man]

Interesting topic. I've been reconditioning a bunch of 022 switches, but I don't get nearly this wild! :D

I also don't even attempt a switch that looks like the one you posted above! :D ...

I just wanted to prove that under a little rust lies a good switch.
It was a box lot, so I wasn't choosey. I have done them before mostly from e bay and they were better than what they appeared.

Wild? Well maybe off the beaten path a little.:)

[gunrunnerjohn]

Gun,
Hurry get yours today.
I only have 5 autographed copies left of the,

T-MANS TRAIN FIX ALL MANUAL

1001 fix's of O gauge.

256 color photographs
467 B&W


Soft cover / first edition.:D:thumbsup:
only $29.99

Soon to be on CD
along with a special additional free CD containing, Classic T-man U tubes how to do's.:thumbsup:I'll wait for the downloadable version. :D

[gunrunnerjohn]

I just wanted to prove that under a little rust lies a good switch.
It was a box lot, so I wasn't choosey. I have done them before mostly from e bay and they were better than what they appeared.

Wild? Well maybe off the beaten path a little.:)Well, I was impressed how good they came out. I've gotten a few and worked them over, but I'm not sure I'm ready to put that kind of effort into them. :D

[servoguy]

Check my post on ctt "022/711 switch operating pblms" (http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/164691/1813936.aspx#1813936) for a complete set of instructions on how to bring an 022 switch back to life. Except for the 711s which are O72 switches, I think the 022s are the best Lionel made. I have 86 of them, and if they are properly restored, they work perfectly.
Bruce Baker

[gunrunnerjohn]

It didn't come up with any results on that exact search, got a link?

Other than one that was pretty much past recovery, I've managed to revive a dozen of them, and I'm just learning the ropes. I have another dozen in the mail, I'll be working on those next. :D

[servoguy]

Here is a link: http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/p/164691/1812172.aspx#1812172

Bruce Baker

[gunrunnerjohn]

Thanks, interesting reading. You have a couple of additional tips that I didn't run across in my investigation of the switches. I do take the switch base off and wash it with soap and water before starting any repairs, I also wash the switch covers. I dry them with a hair drier to get any water out I can't get with the rag.

I don't use WD-40, but rather contact cleaner for the contacts and light machine oil for the lub of the action. I've a pretty avid gun collector, and I've seen guns that have been "preserved" with WD-40 that are gummed up solid! In my experience, it's not really a lubricant or preservative. It's original purpose was "water displacement", hence the WD designation.

[servoguy]

If the "light machine oil" you use is 3 in 1, you are likely going to be disappointed as it dries out and becomes gummy. I have had poor experience with 3 in 1 oil. That is why I recommend 5W-20 engine oil. It doesn't dry out.

I don't use WD-40 as a lubricant but as a contact cleaner. I clean off the silver contacts that are in the switch motor with WD-40. I wipe them clean when I am done cleaning them. I have had poor luck with "contact cleaners." I have 45 years of experience with contact cleaners. Back in 1966 I started programming analog computers. Some of the contacts in these machines are "dry contacts." Dry contacts don't have enough current flowing through them to break down any oxide on the contacts. We finally started using CRC-356 for contact cleaner, which is similar to WD-40. This essentially eliminated our contact problems. I used to use WD-40 on mechanical TV tuners, and it worked very well. The CFC contact cleaners didn't work at all. WD-40 works well because it will dissolve the corrosion on the contacts. The CFC cleaners don't do that.
Bruce Baker

[inxy]

T-Man where do I find the Lionel Supplementals 1-9 page 471 ?.

[gunrunnerjohn]

Go to this page at Lionel Service Documents (http://www.lionel.com/CustomerService/service-documents/), leave the search blank and click on the pull-down that says "Please select one". You can download all the stuff from there.

[inxy]

Thanks gunrunner. Didn't know that storehouse of information was available. The pdf found a home on my computer.

[gunrunnerjohn]

Make sure you get all the later supplements as well, they go all the way to 47. Another great storehouse for stuff that's not there is Olsen's Library (http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd1.htm), lots of post-war stuff that you won't find at Lionel.

[T-Man]

This is from the Lionel Service website, same info. (http://www.lionel.com/media/servicedocuments/72-4062-250.pdf) from lebshift21

[servoguy]

T, I agree that part of the fun of the trains is restoring something that someone else was ready to throw away. I have done it many times, particularly with the 022 switches. I never had one as rusty as the ones you show in this thread. Your pictues and TJ's posts show that even something pretty well gone can be restored to excellent condition.

In addition to the 022 switches, I have restored a lot of old track, although I only make it servicable by cleaning off the top of the rails and the pins. I like the looks of old rusty track as it more closely resembles the look of the reall stuff.

[tjcruiser]

Your pictues and TJ's posts show that even something pretty well gone can be restored to excellent condition.


< humbled >

Thanks very much ... I enjoy seeing an old motor rev up again for the first time in 50 years or so, and the challenge of breathing some new life back into an old, rusted, dented loco. Good (and not so clean!) fun!

TJ

[servoguy]

I have a Lehigh Valley 44 ton GE loco that had an idler gear break 35 years ago. I made a new gear out of a piece of brass. Today, I would order a gear from Jeff at Train Tender or from Stock Drive. I also repaired one of my 736 locos that had a worn out bearing for the pilot truck, and made a bushing for the motor in my Picatinny Arsenal 2-4-2 switcher. And I have repaired a lot of other things along the way.