My first Layout

[JamesGino]

This is my first attempt at a layout. I have no train gear at all. I'm starting completely from scratch. No materials or anything.

I did have a set of HO scale when I was a kid, but I never did much with it. Now I want to do some actually modeling along with the track.

Most terms are still new to me and I would appreciate it if you didn't use acronyms in your responses so that I can learn what they all are. :)

I plan on doing a pretty simple HO scale layout. I don't want my first attempt to be too complicated. I will have two tracks going around a 8'x4' board. Five of my corners are planned at 18" and three are at 15". Am I making a mistake? I've seen some posts that say I should be weary of 15" turns. Take a look at the picture to see how I plan the track to work.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e11/jamesgino/IMG_0229.jpg

I used the string to measure how much track I'm going to need. The tracks are spaced three inches apart from center to center. Is that enough room or should I space them out even more?

I would appreciate any help that you can give me. As I said I'm brand new and I'm trying to stay away from costly mistakes by doing plenty of planning. I do plan on getting the 8x4 board tomorrow along with some foam that I can start cutting up and playing around with.

[TulsaFlyer]

15 inch radius will limit you to smaller locos, and maybe some rolling stock.

Other than that, it looks like a good start.


Oh, and that turnout on the lower left.......it'll run your trains off the table.:rolleyes:


Jody

[tankist]

i would not go for radiuses below 18". 18 is tight as it is

[swiggy]

the lower section on my layout is roughly 8' x 4' and i have 18
' track laying just fine. the outer track is 18" with a straight. i may switch it to 22" track soon. i would recommend at least 18" radius curves.

[tkruger]

If you have the space you may want to add enough space to the edge of the board to allow 4 inches between the track and the edge. This will save a train from taking a long drop into the abyss of heapdom.

[JamesGino]

Well I've finished with my first day of work. Like I said before. I don't have any track yet, but I wish I could lay some down to see how things worked out. I did change the corners. The outside is 22" and the inside is 18". I'm glad I didn't go with the 15" corners.

I bought a piece of particle board from Lowes for the base. I also bought a sheet of 1"x4'x8" styrofoam insulation. It had an aluminum foil looking side that I was able to peel off. The sheet was only $13. Much cheaper than other sheets that I found. I used Liquid Nails Silicon glue to secure everything. I really like it. When I made a mistake I could just tear up the piece of styrofoam and scrap away the glue without any issues.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e11/jamesgino/IMG_0234.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e11/jamesgino/IMG_0235.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e11/jamesgino/IMG_0236.jpg

You'll notice on the backside behind the tunnel that I've left it open. I'm planning to have a mountain there and I wanted to make sure I could extract an engine or car that derailed back there.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e11/jamesgino/IMG_0238.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e11/jamesgino/IMG_0239.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e11/jamesgino/IMG_0240.jpg

Now I just need to order some track and watch on ebay for a cheap set.

[big ed]

I may be wrong but it looks like your grade is going to be too steep.

Did you figure out what the percentage is, of the grade?

[JamesGino]

I may be wrong but it looks like your grade is going to be too steep.

Did you figure out what the percentage is, of the grade?

It's a 4% grade. One inch every two feet. I know it's steep, but I don't plan on having too many cars behind an engine. This is my first attempt so I guess I'll learn from any mistakes :)

I thought about doing a 5% grade, but I opted to start both sides at 1" and drop the outside line. It's only a 2.2% grade.

Is 4% too steep?

[choo choo]

There's a way to find out... before you go any farther, just temporarily silcone some track onto the grades and see how the trains run. My layout is also going to have steep grades with small short trains, so I'm going to test various grades to find out what I can actually get away with... ;)

[Rocky Mountian]

Looks like a great start. I don't have a layout yet so this is cool to see it start from the begining.:)

[Rocky Mountian]

As far as grade goes if you get to steep add a engine or traction tires. Just what I have set up with ez track to see what can be done has been intereresting and if I wanted to pull more cars I added a engine so I could get up the hill, It's amazing what the little engines will do.:)3646
I had 4 powered 1 dummy to pull the cars pictured.:D

[big ed]

As far as grade goes if you get to steep add a engine or traction tires. Just what I have set up with ez track to see what can be done has been intereresting and if I wanted to pull more cars I added a engine so I could get up the hill, It's amazing what the little engines will do.:)3646
I had 4 powered 1 dummy to pull the cars pictured.:D


Thats some table you built there!:D
You used everything but the kitchen sink.:laugh::thumbsup:

[flyboy2610]

Just pretend it's Sherman Hill in Wyoming.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwVXL282Wm0

[big ed]

Just pretend it's Sherman Hill in Wyoming.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwVXL282Wm0

Looks like they should install some ventilation in the tunnel.:D
Either that or the lead engine should go into the shop!:laugh:
Nicely weathered.:thumbsup:

[tankist]

The 4% is not the problem . Transition from 4% to 0 can be. unless its a smooth one (and that means long), you Will have engines scraping plows and cars decoupling on the crest.

[Rocky Mountian]

Just pretend it's Sherman Hill in Wyoming.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwVXL282Wm0

All I can say is......WOW!

[Rocky Mountian]

Thats some table you built there!:D
You used everything but the kitchen sink.:laugh::thumbsup:

I can't wait till I can do a real layout, but for now this has been fun to do.
Easily enterained.:laugh:

[JamesGino]

I'm not worried about the transition. It seems to be pretty smooth, but only track and an engine will tell.

[tkruger]

If you loco cannot make the climb before adding traction tires etc. try adding weight. If you add equal weight over each truck you will increase the tractive force the engine has. you will need to make sur that all of the couplers are at equal heights. If the transition is not smooth enough the couplers will uncouple. This is more likely to occur on longer cars.

[tjcruiser]

James,

Just catching up and seeing this thread ... been out of town for the past few days...

I agree that 18" radius is minimum, along with 4" center to center track distance.

I intentionally built a 4% grade on my HO layout ... I knew it was steep, but didn't plan on pulling too many cars. It works OK for me, but I certainly wouldn't recommend 4% to anyone who wanted to pull heavy loads and/or many cars.

Here's one point that's confusing me, and I didn't see anyone else discuss it with you ...

I don't yet understand how you intend to build one rail within a tunnel on the right hand of your layout (the A track), and then IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT to this, plan to have the B track elevated on top of the hill/mountain. While you can achieve this with the foam risers (as you have already done), I suspect that you'll have a very difficult time "sculpting" this "high/low" transition into a pleasing moutain shape.

Perhaps you've already envisioned a solution here, so I don't mean to be critical. But do give it some clear thought (if you haven't already), and think about the required 3-dimensional ground contouring required to accomplish your goal.

Great to have you onboard here at the forum, and please do keep us posted!

TJ

[JamesGino]

James,

Here's one point that's confusing me, and I didn't see anyone else discuss it with you ...

I don't yet understand how you intend to build one rail within a tunnel on the right hand of your layout (the A track), and then IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT to this, plan to have the B track elevated on top of the hill/mountain. While you can achieve this with the foam risers (as you have already done), I suspect that you'll have a very difficult time "sculpting" this "high/low" transition into a pleasing moutain shape.

Perhaps you've already envisioned a solution here, so I don't mean to be critical. But do give it some clear thought (if you haven't already), and think about the required 3-dimensional ground contouring required to accomplish your goal.

Great to have you onboard here at the forum, and please do keep us posted!

TJ

I do have a pretty good idea of how the mountain will be shaped. Let me see if I can explain it though.

As the train enters the tunnel on the curve of line A it will actually be entering into a cliff face, with a retaining wall supporting track B on it's left. I envision the mountain range running left to right along the board, Line B will cut through a small valley, while line A tunnels beneath. On exiting the hill Line A will be the inside line and Line B will be on the outside. It will all work out and I'll show pictures after I get some track laid down.

I wish I could explain it better.

Has anyone ever used paper mache instead of plaster paper? Or is there some other method that would help me craft a landscape?

[tjcruiser]

James,

Glad to hear you have a clear 3D plan.

Do a "search" in the forum on "paper mache" ... I'm sure some members here have discussed it.

In terms of other methods, the answer is generally: Lots! On "commercial" option is to use a Woodland Scenics plaster-impregnated cloth that can be draped over crumpled up newspapers. Yields a pretty convincing landscape. Solid carved foam is another option, of course. Poke around the forum "how to" threads and you should find some options.

Cheers,

TJ

[JamesGino]

My goal today was to figure out some way to build a retaining wall. I thought about using thin foam and cutting lines in it to look like bricks and then paint it. I also thought of making some forms and actually making each brick itself.

I went to Home Depot to look for some plaster, but I found a light weight plaster instead of the heavier stuff that I was looking for. It seemed like it was actually a foam that I could put into forms and it would dry to be a hard foam.

Once I got home I tried it out. I made my forms out of wooden sticks I found at the craft store. The foam didn't want to stick into the forms I made, but in the end I made it work out

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e11/jamesgino/IMG_0251.jpg

After letting it dry for a few hours I was able to cut out 1/2 x 1/2 squares on a piece of paper that I had painted the same color that I would paint the bricks.

I used Testors Flat Light Aircraft Grey (what I had on hand) to paint the bricks, and it made them really stand out, showing the cracks and imperfections that I would expect real rock to show.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e11/jamesgino/IMG_0248.jpg

I still might run a darker color of gray along the edges and maybe shade some of the bricks a different color of gray, but I think it turned out great.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e11/jamesgino/IMG_0250.jpg

The Paint n Patch foam spackling is about 1/4 the weight of regular plaster, but once it dries it's still very hard, but I can still cut it with a razor knife. I'll probably use the same stuff to make other rocks later on, and maybe even some road bed.

I've also made a form of a large concrete slab. I might use it instead of the brick to make my retaining wall, but it's still drying. I'll post pictures up when I get it painted.

[dustinward03]

Thats creative man. I will probably try something similar with the layout I just started instead of spending money on retaining walls at the hobby store.

[tjcruiser]

Nice work. You might consider using that same "stone" method to face your tunnel entrance/exit portals.

TJ

[JamesGino]

Just another note on the spackling, and a possible downside. Be sure to let it dry for 8-10 hours before you cut into it. The part that you see finished was cut to early and the inside was still somewhat wet. I let some dry over night and it was a lot easier to cut without worrying about it loosing it shape.

[igmuska]

I like that color, I can also see walls, fences, concrete streets and parking lots.

[big ed]

I like that color, I can also see walls, fences, concrete streets and parking lots.



Hmmmmm, Cobblestone streets?:thumbsup::D

Thanks for the idea!:thumbsup:

[JamesGino]

I have a technical question. Say you measure out an 18" curve. Where does that 18" hit on the track?. Is it to the center, inside, or outside?

[tjcruiser]

HO radii are referenced to the center of the track, midway between the rails.

(That's not necassarily true of all O guage track and perhaps others guages.)

[JamesGino]

Well I got some track today. When I laid out my 18" corners I found that they didn't match up with what I had drawn out on my board. It seemed like the outside of the track was matching the 18" mark instead of the middle like I had originally assumed. I took a step back and thought about it for the afternoon before I realized that I needed a 2" straight in the middle of the curve. Once I figured it out things worked like I had planned them to.

Three cheers for coming up with my own plan instead of follow some booklet of instructions!

I still don't have enough track to complete everything, but I was able to test an engine and cars out on the transition to a 4% grade, in addition to how the engine pull the grade with 4 cars behind it. Things worked just fine with no issue at the bottom or the apex of the grade.

[tankist]

that is a nice solution on the bricks.
although personally i find the light weight speckling paste longish to dry and to brittle when cured (used that at some spots). unless weight is a concern (module that will need to be moved at a times) i would cast those out of plaster of paris or hydrocal (love working with that stuff). much more durable and solidifies really fast and can be worked in as little as 20-30 minutes.