Toast

[T-Man]

OK, here's the scoop. I have a board from a toaster. It is suppose to be a timer. The trick is substituting a relay for the electromagnet. With the first picture I discovered the positive lead for the relay. With two opposing LEDs I could detemine current flow. One had to light up.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4365&stc=1&d=1285464445

This shows the board, I need to change the resistance to get a shorter time span. Now I don't get a timer from a 45 watt transformer.
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4367&stc=1&d=1285464880
This relay shuts the power off. The red and white complete the circuit.I know my power will connect here. The other little line is the ground.

This is what the magnet looks like.
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4368&stc=1&d=1285464880

The point of this is to get use out of a bad toaster and set up a block signal for a three rail set up. I wil give credit to the authors but so far all I have is parts.

[T-Man]

Progress is slow. Sorry. The timer I had on "burnt" since the dials reversed. I adjusted and have a 40 second delay .For some reason, it was not reliable. I removed the red line since that was a return for the heater element. The two pink resistors were in series with the large white wire so I jumped them with the power and got lucky. My test LED does cycle now.
One principle That I will explain from the article is the 120 AC. I understand that from the resistance of the heater elements the voltage drops to 20 volts. This can be handled by a rr transformer. The pink resistors were part of this so now I am getting more operational voltage from the transformer.
This board has the 1n4001 diodes at work to convert the necessary DC.

I also removed the pink resistors and the red line is the jumper. The relay was removed. To large, anyway.
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4378&stc=1&d=1285516532

The yellow show the transistors. The white dots show the negative side with magenta dots being positive.
The six blue dots show the removed relay.
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4379&stc=1&d=1285516532

[T-Man]

This exercise started from an article in the Nov issue of "Mainline" a Newsletter of AGTTA. The All Gage Toy Train Assoc. of San Diego. The authors are Jerry Stipanov and Jim Weatherford. Sadly I could not find an issue on line.

Article facts:

The 120 V toaster is reduced to 20 volts by the heater element resistance.
The magnetic latch is DC and is substituted with a 12 DC relay.
The electromagnet can be used to drive a mechanical device.
Three sections of track were isolated for the block signal
This can also be used to interupt power to an accessory when the train passes. A detector!
Substituting resistance you can vary the stop time.

So far so good. I need a SPST relay and should be ready for a track test.
I am not worried about the stop time. I want to see this work and the time is just fine tunning. I am not sure which of these do the regulating.:ohwell:

The Toaster supplied by Black and Decker.

[T-Man]

The 12v relay Radio Shack part 275-0241 is shown. The isolated track is to the left. When the axle grounds out the timer starts and shuts off the center rail. The relay turns off after the timer completes the cycle and power is restortes to the center rail.


http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4460&stc=1&d=1285854770

The first trial failed the relay didn't switch. More troubleshooting. 10-3-10

[T-Man]

Just to keep the suspense up, more wondering, what to do.
I removed the adjustable potentiometer. WIth power I would touch it and the relay woud click on and off. I was the first sign of life from the board since I placed the relay on it. A good sign anyway.Then I added resistance to the power supply at 220 ohms. One thing to keep in mind is that the board has two timer sections. One to operate the magnet and the other the 30 volt relay. The important piece is the tantalium capacitor. It is in the upper left of the first picture. These capacitor are very accurate and better than the ones I normally use.
So my next step is to set up some activation lights so I can see what happens or doesn't.

[tjcruiser]

tantalium capacitor

T-Man ... Did you pull that out of something Scotty had said on an old Star Trek episode?!?

How do you know stuff like that? I am ever amazed. "Tantalium" ... is that actually what it's made of, or some fancy mfr name?

Just curious,

TJ

[T-Man]

I talked to my brother, the electrical engineer. He told me about it. The word is tantalum, not tantalium, I spelled it wrong. Any way they look like a gob of epoxy in different colors.


http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4675&stc=1&d=1286943277

[T-Man]

I installed lights to the board and learnd that the timer is still at one minute. The 12 volt relay is too high and is not getting turned on. I will have to go to a 6 volt relay. I got a 5.5 volt reading with the meter. Now, I have to reduce the time too by reducing some more resistors..

[T-Man]

I remove the 230 ohms at the wire feed where those pink resistors were and the relay worked!!!!!!!!!!! It shut off as soon as I powered up the board.This will work when the engine hits the isolated block.

Now I have to shorten the 40 second waiting time. The lights helped.

[Reckers]

:pimp:I'm impatiently waiting to see this thing make French Toast.

[T-Man]

Got it to 15 seconds! I need a directional light. Show how it was done by using the second board. Darn, I need another relay! Also the video.
My outer loop is all set up for a real test.

The track test CRASHED! Back to the drawing board.

More to come.

[T-Man]

This shows when power is applied the relay activates and shuts the track off the blue light. WHen the relay turns off , the yellow light, power is restores to the track. My problem is the power doesn't shut off. I think I am feeding pos from my ground so I have a rectifier problem. My relay may be too small with only one amp.



5ZTXf8h27HM


Last night I had a revelation. My test on the track had a flaw. I forgot to isolate the ties for the outer rail. With that admitted I will drive on.

[T-Man]

I adjusted my rails and retested. Success!! I have a 40 second delay. It doesn't work all the time but most of it.

Here it is. For some reason at a lower throttle the relay stays on, and the engine passes.

aKrzn9_UUDo

[tjcruiser]

T-Man,

What can I say? You are the TOAST OF THE TOWN!

That said, clueless me is a bit confused. I thought your timer gizmo was just that ... something to turn the train on and off automatically based purely on a time delay.

However, as I watch your video, it appears that the train is stopping exactly in the same spot on the track (after making a loop). Is that just coincidence? Or is there something "connected" between the timer and where the train is on the track?

Set me straight, T-Man ...

TJ

[T-Man]

Two things happen very quickly.
The train hits the isolated section,this turns on the timer and relay.

Once the relay is on the power to the center rail turns off and the engine stops and waits.

So it gets power and stops the train. When the train leaves you see it turn off when the last car leaves.

[tjcruiser]

T-Man,

Ahhh ... I get it! That's really ingenious! Isolated track section + timer = stop and go fun!

Well done ... very well done!

TJ

[T-Man]

When I get deep into the action, I tend to get light on explainations.

The SPDT realy is the key. It operates o 12 volts.
It has two positions. The isolated rail is on when the relay is off. WHen it turms on the relay shuts the power to the rail off and starts timing.

[T-Man]

To update, I was installing a table base directional light when the timer wouldn't switch back on. I may have to go to the backup, after that. The good news is the directional light will fit an 022 switch. The design is similiar to the one I use for the reverse unit.

After messing with the camera I got rid of the yellow tinge. It was a camera setting after all.

[Smokestack Lightning]

T-Man. I've never seen anyone actually look for electrical issues before:laugh:

[T-Man]

I have the paper copy with the article. It would be nice to link it here.

It's always fun, until something doesn't work anymore.

[trainguru]

Um, just wondering, I'm in the planing stages of my "permanent" model railroad right now! In one of the storage sheds, I have a four unit toaster, also outfitted for "Pop Tarts". I don't like them myself, but my friends do. If I invite people over, I want to have a quick way to make food for them. Is there a way to run the stopping timer, and still have toast too??? :D I'm sorry if it's stupid (:o), but right now I'm hungry, and this is asowme! So please, somebody help? I really hate to leave the layout for a measly peice of toast, I'd rather stop the train to cook the toast, and be able to use the restroom, get some tea, or cocoa, or a back issue of MR, without worring about fiddeling with the transformers!:confused:

[T-Man]

I know the magnet that holds the lever down is timed. Solder two wires to it's connection points and measure the voltage. ( This where my unit failed) Power a 12 volt relay with the wires and use diodes to drop the voltage down if necessary. It will be DC. Then connect the relay to the track. Try not fry yourself with the 120 volts on the toaster. The relay should be protected with diodes. One across the coil and on leading to the positive side of the coil.

There is also a twenty or 25 volt relay used to power the switch. You just have to figure it out.

My guess is, the warranty is voided and in the end you may have to deal with failure and you will be without toast Too.

[Artieiii]

This thread reminds me of a song i heard on the bob and tom show:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d5XTtozUsg
-Art

[T-Man]

Never heard if Bob and TOM till now. :laugh:

[Artieiii]

Never heard if Bob and TOM till now. :laugh:

They are syndicated morning talk radio guys. They used to be on a local station but they are now gone.
-Art