342 AC-Project

[Stillakid]

Thought this would be a good subject for a thread:D

I picked up this, "Unknown" chassis in a "Parts Lot"
There were lots of needed goodies and a 302 loco(plastic shell), that was missing it's front trucks.

At first, I couldn't determine other than that it was switcher, what model it was. Though the switchers share many of the same parts, there are parts of the drive train that don't match up. So I pulled a wheel and on the back side found my clue:D

I have some cleaning and soldering to do today, but not a biggie:laugh:

Last night, I did find a shell!!!!!!!:thumbsup: Pricey, but considering what these go for, a steal.

So here we go:eek: I've included a picture of what I hope to accomplish:confused:

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[Reckers]

Jim, congratulations! Here's a couple more reference photos; sometimes an extra angle is helpful.

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr174/reckandstep/Model%20Railroading/AF_342_Loco_10-24-050001.jpg

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr174/reckandstep/Model%20Railroading/342ac.jpg

It looks like you are missing the piston for the chuff...I think I had one in that parts collection I bought. I'll see if there is one and send it, if you are missing yours. Does the boiler have jewels on it? I have a few of them, too. Also, what about your boiler front? I have one that goes to something with a keystone emblem in the center of the boiler front. Let me know and I'll start sorting thru my stuff. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Stillakid]

Len, I've already put together a sheet with ALL the parts & numbers for the 342AC. I'll use the sheet to go thru my manual and look for like parts in other models. That should help when I start looking on evilBay, and when i turn to you. Untill I get the shell, I won't know where to go first:eek:

Thanks for the offer of parts!! If you don't mind, could we wait a week or so before I give you a list? I need to go thru all my "junk boxes" too:laugh:

Actually, what I really need to do, is go out and buy one of those nifty, 12 or 15 drawer parts bins and label what I have. It's a PITA, constantly looking and wondering:confused:

One of the leads of the magnet assembly broke:(, but T-man had explained how to make that repair with one of my "Other Brand" locomotives:rolleyes:, so that was fixed. I also noticed that the drive wheels are not at a 90 degree off-set. I could see by the condition of the insulator, that someone had taken that wheel off and not aligned it properly:thumbsdown: Fixing this will be a challenge!!!

The armature has two really bad spots. Sanded with 400, but there are still 2 deep gauges(not concentric ridges) Burned up?

Anyway, I'm excited. I've always wanted a Switcher and finding the tender with light, would be cool to boot!!!!

Jim

[Stillakid]

I am so tempted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/american-flyer-train-parts-/170549266643?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item27b58748d3

[Reckers]

*laughing*.....no problem, Jim. Take whatever time you need and then let me know how I can help.

[Reckers]

Tim, thats a good technique: thanks for sharing it.

[tjcruiser]

So I pulled a wheel and on the back side found my clue:D


Hi Jim,

So what was the clue? I thought you mentioned in the other thread that you found a loco i.d. number somewhere on the frame?

I like Tim's armature cleanup drill/press tip. Tricky, and one has a "one shot" copper thickness tolerance, but the axial alignment of the drill press chuck makes that more accurate than by hand, perhaps.

Question ...

Are the armatures on all AF's always removable from the motor frame/assembly? That's not the case with many of the older Lionels I've been working on. In many loco motors, the armature is installed captive between the motor assembly cheeks, and prying those apart entails pretty extensive surgery. Other lionel motors have a brush plate that's removable to reveal a hole large enough to retract the armature. I don't know why they didn't do that on all motors. A bit frustrating.

Back to the 342 ... looks like a fabulous reincarnation project. I like that ... reincarnation vs. restoration!

Cheers,

TJ

[Stillakid]

Timboy-Great idea, with luck, it will work for me:laugh: My problem is that there are 2, what appear to be, "burn spots", on the plate:(

TJ-The number(XA10504), on the chassis identified that it is a Switcher. The number(XA10104) on the flanged wheel with tapped hole, is common only to that model wheel set.

"Elementary my dear Watson, elementary!":laugh::laugh::laugh:(and a PITA to find!)

[Reckers]

TJ,

I only run AF steamers, so my sample pool is limited. That said, I've not met one yet that does not have a removeable armature. The game trains that were produced at the end of the original company era were not designed to be dismantled easily: they had metal tabs in the plastic slots of the boiler shell that used the plastic shell's own wall-strength to keep them in place. You can (by prying) open them up, but you risk cracking the plastic shell every time you do.

[tjcruiser]

Jim -- You get a Gold Star for using the wheel part # as your i.d. clue. Well done! With a bit of help from your AF reference books, huh? Great value/info in those.

Reck -- Interesting. I guess when AF and Lionel were building these things, they figured that the armature was pretty bullet proof. In my (very limited) experience with Lionel, I'd say that's pretty close to the mark ... I have yet to have/find a loco where the armature is broken in any way. That said, on these old girls, a good armature cleaning (and copper face re-smooth) certainly helps, and the "captive armature" motor casing design drives me a bit nuts. Oh well ... se la vie ...

TJ

[Reckers]

Jim -- You get a Gold Star for using the wheel part # as your i.d. clue. Well done! With a bit of help from your AF reference books, huh? Great value/info in those.

Reck -- Interesting. I guess when AF and Lionel were building these things, they figured that the armature was pretty bullet proof. In my (very limited) experience with Lionel, I'd say that's pretty close to the mark ... I have yet to have/find a loco where the armature is broken in any way. That said, on these old girls, a good armature cleaning (and copper face re-smooth) certainly helps, and the "captive armature" motor casing design drives me a bit nuts. Oh well ... se la vie ...

TJ

It's enough to make a guy move over to a better-built brand of locomotive?:D

[Stillakid]

Received the shell today. It's in better shape than I expected:D
I'm still going to strip/prime/paint. The questions are....................

What Color(s)? Should I attempt some detailing? Should I wait to do the painting till after I get the Tender?:laugh::laugh::laugh:

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[big ed]

this would look nice.:D

[Stillakid]

BigEd, is that one of those, "Joisey" colors?:)

[T-Man]

Something simple for color?

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4619&stc=1&d=1286662007

This is the link (http://members.fortunecity.com/gknowles/meets/nov_07/nov_07.htm)where the picture came from.

[tjcruiser]

Hey Jim,

Before I scrolled down to see T-Man's pic, I was thinking the same thing ... matte black (not gloss) on main part of loco, but silver on the front section of the boiler. Traditional, but looks nice to me.

You're call, of course ... whatever works for you ... EXCEPT Ed's Alien Green!

Glad to hear the shell is in nice shape. Were you just lucky to find a shell-only, or are there lots of these poking around on ebay and the like?

You'll need a cowcatcher, too, right ?

Cheers,

TJ

[Stillakid]

Big Ed......Nooooooooooooooooooo!
T-Man.......Very nice! I did want to do the boiler front and cab different from the main body:D
TJ.......You're right! Next time I do the "Alien Green", it's going to BigEds:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Well, the boiler is stripped, but I found the part number under the cab roof. The paint was so thick, I didn't notice it:o
I'm a bit confused though. The part # is PA9466, but the manual lists it as XA9466:confused: I wonder if this is a "prewar", shell???

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[T-Man]

Looks Good! You're on a roll!

[big ed]

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A very strange looking engine it is!
I don't see how they fit into the shell.:laugh:

Alien green, with a yellow pinstripe and wheels then?:D

[tjcruiser]

Jim,

Nice strip job! Very crisp detail in the casting.

Purely as a passing thought, I wonder if the preceeding letter on the shell i.d. has something to do with identifying which specific mold (tooling) it came out of? Maybe they had multiple tools running concurrently?

Cheers,

TJ

[Stillakid]

TJ, for the most part, AF uses a ton of letter combos on their parts, PA/XA/JTR.................long list.
I don't think it has to do with the manufacturing, but could have something to do with Prewar/Postwar usage of similar items???

Reckers..................
Timboy...................

Technical Questions are for the two, resident, "Savants!":laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Stillakid]

Timboy, Thank You!!!

I'm saving that for my manual. Great information, and quick to boot:laugh::laugh:

Now look in your crystal ball, and tell me where I'm going to find a really, really, really, cheap NBR tender for my 342:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Stillakid]

It was bad enough when I asked if I could buy a bench grinder after seeing how much T-Man, uses his. But after explaining the process of what you showed in your rail building tutorial(I showed it to her!), I again mentioned my need for the grinder. Actually, I said if I couldn't get one, I probably wouldn't be able to build my layout economically. :rolleyes: That I'd have to purchase the Gargraves track that I showed her at a show. She knows how expensive that is:eek:, and started calling me(and you!:D).......awful names:laugh::laugh::laugh:

So anyway, thanks for your help. I'm now residing in my garage. Hope the nice weather holds up:(

Regards,
Jim

[tjcruiser]

You guys are a hoot. Cyrstal Ball Boy ... :laugh:


Tim -- EXCELLENT intel on that AF prefix i.d. letter info. Nicely done! I'm gonna put a few taglines here in this post such that anyone searching for info like that down the road will hit upon this thread with a suitable search:

AF identification numbers
AF prefix letters
AF identification letters
AF part identification
American Flyer identification numbers
American Flyer prefix letters
American Flyer identification letters
American Flyer part identification

I'm amazed how much great stuff can be learned here on the forum each and every day, thanks to the experience and willingness of our members to share what they know to people they've never actually met. Well done, gents ... well done!

TJ

[Stillakid]

Hehehehehehehe...................

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[Reckers]

Stillakid: Here is what I have done to true-up an armature. I chuck it up im my drill press and hold a jeweler's fine to it. Then I use 400 grit sandpaper to take out any grooves that might have been cut into it. Result is terrific. Some guys will chuck it up in a mini-lathe and hold a cutting bit to it. The copper is thick enough to do it once. Hope this helps.

http://timmysamericanflyertrains.blogspot.com/

Regards,
Timboy

Tim,

Before I left on vacation, I needed to true-up an armature and decided to use your technique. My lil drillpress will only operate vertically and I wanted to see better while dressing the face. Instead, I took my electric hand-drill and gently mounted the armature's end in the chuck so I could spin it with the commutator face-up. Sitting in a chair with the drill clasped between my thighs, I could operate the drill's trigger with one hand and gently rest the jeweler's file on the copper faces of the commutator----worked great! I ended up with a finely-polished surface with no grooves. I then used the same file to de-bur and dress the faces of the brushes before reassembling the motor for my old steamer. Thanks again for the suggestion!

[tjcruiser]

Reck ... I'm jealous ... Lionel armatures are often held captive between motor cheeks, as I have mentioned ... no easy way to dress up the face.

Tim ... I'm jealous ... I've been to some local, smaller train shows, but never to York ... sounds amazing. Are good deals the norm? Or average prices (say when compared to ebay)? I guess the big pro is that you can touchy-feely exactly what you're buying.

Cheers,

TJ

[Reckers]

Tim, using the drill like that is no problem: I'm used to handling heavy equipment. :laugh:

[Stillakid]

You two are to much!

I'm at a standstill with getting parts for the 342. I've bid on a boiler front, linkage, and all the linkage screws & nuts. Had I won, it would have come to over $125(shipping not included!):eek:

Mind you, that doesn't include the tender:(

I'm mulling over, whether to outright buy a 342 & tender and take what I have to the 2 train swaps coming up in Nov/Dec. Or, do I give up on a switcher, and go for a K335 or a 336?(parts are more available!)I could then just wait it out on parts for the 342.

[T-Man]

The best way, is to buy complete engines. As Timboy mentioned he uses e bay to get rid of parts. Just that fact says a lot about ebay in general. There must be a reason to get rid of them.Two engines I bought were really bad and are still not working. I have noticed that lots appear to be discarded/replace parts. You definitely don't make out in price. To me a lot has to have at least three usable parts I need. Lots are rare and single priced items are bought only rarely.
I firmly believe that when you buy the engines you are competing against part guys who want to break it up. My case of the 224 going for 50 in the last minutes has fueled my suspicions. I won the auction against an auto bidder.

[Stillakid]

Bob, the chassis was part of a "large lot" I purchased. I don't think the guy knew what he had. I've seen what I have go for over $80, so I thought that since I had it, and I really wanted a switcher, I'd go for it.
At this point, I believe I made a bad call:(

[Reckers]

Jim, can you tell me what boiler front you are missing? I have an extra one that goes to a locomotive with a PA keystone in the center. It might fit. It came off of something larger than my puny Atlantics!

[Reckers]

Tim,

I understand the "Pig in a poke" concern. However, even a blind pig will find the occasional acorn. My experience with shows is that the prices are...well, pricey. Add to that the expense of travel and lodging, and Ebay starts looking better. That said, a joy-trip is all about having fun and spending freely is part of that, so I'm not belittling shows. They're lots of fun, even when you don't buy anything.
My experience is that, as a blind pig, I can still snuffle around Ebay and purchase items that I like. I pay attention to vendor ratings and there are some people I just won't buy from: people who like to chop working locomotives up and sell the parts, for example. The way I see it, shopping ebay is like shopping at LHS's or life, in general. You encounter some fine people and occasionally someone who is morals-challenged. When enough people identify the degenerates as such, their business fails and the system has cleansed itself.

[Reckers]

Tim, I think you have an excellent game plan and the self-discipline to make it work. I agree with the soft-market part; I was reading, this morning, gripes from several York sellers that they had to sell for less, the market was tilted to high supply and low demand...can't say I felt sorry for them.

That said, what does travelling and having fun have to do with socializing with GUYS???:D:D:D:pimp:

[Stillakid]

Len, the boiler front for the 342, 343 is XA9467-B
For the 346, XA9467-BRP

Timboy, you and Len are both right! For me, the local shows are more geared towards Lionel & HO. What I've seen, other than parts(Joes Train Repair), is not what I'm looking for. It's mostly beat up plastic, missing trucks and a zillion cabooses:eek:

Because of some age related issues(old age/falling apart), driving to the farther out shows doesn't work for now.

I've watched your progress and even spent time admiring your work on the other sites for some time now. What you know, and how you apply it didn't happen over night or without considerable time and expense. That you so freely share it is a boon to MTF:thumbsup: That said, I understand your passion for perfection:D

I just really got into this when I realized that I had to much time on my hands, and was to limited to do most of the things I once enjoyed. It's gone from therapy to now being a hobby. And I might add, a hobby that the "Boss" regrets having encouraged:laugh::laugh::laugh: