Newbie "Evolving" Holiday Layout Question

[Necro]

So...I've decided to do an HO layout for the Holidays. I'm not big into train models due to size issues (and I tend to do hobbies in spurts of insane dedication and then drop them for a few months...so...only doing the trains at the holidays works with this tendency of mine).

So...I've decided on and have/just purchased the following:
- Bachmann EZ-Track. I just got the World's Greatest Hobby/My First Track track set for us as the initial 'base'.
- Just got an IHC 2-8-0 Steam Engine via e-bay (which I hope I don't regret...it was cheap but still...)
- I have 3 diesel engines (2x 0-8-0, 1x ...uh...a big BIG one) ) and 1 0-4-0 steam 'pusher'. All the diesels are from Life-Like 'train sets' I believe.
- I have 4x6 of space now, with the potential to add another 2x4 panel at a later time once I have more space.
- Just got a decent transformer and will be doing a DC setup.

So...my plan is to do the following layout this year (colors are power/isolated areas):
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5549&stc=1&d=1290566545

...and add/modify into this over the next 2 years.
http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5550&stc=1&d=1290566545

I have the track and an old powerpack, so I tested the first plan and have hit some issues.

- The spur/line at the top is semi-useless unless it's only a one car train - basically two smaller rolling stocks fit into the space after the turnout. So...I can 'grab' them with the smaller steam but...would like some opinions on this from people.
- I'd like to be able to run two trains concurrently. I understand with DCC this would be easy even with this configuration, but that's not happening now. Maybe in a few years (and if I get a few DCC compatible engines), but for now I'm thinking of either a stand alone loop above the track to the right or a loop that uses the 'final' plans bottom spur as a ramp to this loop. Thoughts? I'd most likely do this with snap track as I think it would look better compared to the eztrack and will be easier to do raised and possibly a ramp with.
- Since this is seasonal, I'm not going to be all gung-ho on things being 'realistic' or perfect, but I also don't want to go 100% toy either. My son is only 18 months old now so...the 'fun' for me now is building this to a point that when he's old enough to appreciate it, the layout is fun for him and gives him the fun train memories I have from the O and HO set my dad setup when I was a kid. Again, suggestions on terrain, lighting, etc? I'm really interested in having houses light up and adding as may 'light' features as I can as it's a christmas setup and will be used a lot at night I think. Main issue here is I really don't understand (aside from using christmas light LEDS) where I can find accessories to work with the powerpack I'm getting (the AC line is 19v)...which gets to my last question...
- The powerpack I'm getting (MRC Railpower 1370) is 19v ac. Is this an issue? I tink I read that the ez-track turnout switches are 16v...can I still use this? Do I need resistors? What about lighting? Is that all ac as well? (I'm familiar with wiring DC LEDs in parallel with resistors on each one...but...AC is new to me).


Thanks everyone in advance...I'm really wanting to make sure I make this layout fun and don't have to redo everything in a year to do something that would improve it greatly that I could have caught now.

(Oh...one thing. All 3 of the panels have to come apart for storage when not in use so...none of the scenery can be >4 inches high or if it is, must be non-permanent...so...that makes potential rearranging easier...I guess...if the boards don't get destroyed...although I may use grass paper and that would hide holes if replaced...)



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[tjcruiser]

Necro,

That's quite the detailed first post! Welcome. Great to see you getting in the holiday train spirit!

You're overall thinking/planning is generally on the right track. You point out the disfunctionality of the spur, as drawn. It's impractical to have to have a train pull forward then backup to enter/exit the horizontal spur. I'd flip the spur turnout entrace over to the left side (mirror image), and then add a second one immediately thereafter (might have to be a cuved turnout) to yield a dual-forked freight yard. However ...

While your 4'x6' space is pre-defined, it seems to me that you're not taking full advantage of the 4' depth availability. You indicate that you'd like to have two trains running at once. I think you can accomplish that with a 4x6 layout something like this ... it's a mix of 18" radii and 22" radii curved track, well suited to a 4' deep layout:

http://www.thortrains.net/hpoor5c.gif

That plan is from the Thor Trains website. They are a great source for looking at "canned" layout plans of a wide array of complexity and sizes. Here's just one of their web pages that's well suited to your thinking:

http://www.thortrains.net/poorhoa.html

Poke around their HO section to dig up some other ideas.

One extra minor thought ... I build a nominal 4x8 layout using a sheet of MDF. However, standard MDF sheet size is 49" x 97" ... so in your case, MDF buys you one extra (free!) inch of depth, making the double-loop idea all the more possible.

(I'm gonna defer to others for thoughts on powering, voltage, etc.)

Cheers,

TJ

[Necro]

I did look at Thortains in thinking things over (and a few other sites) - one of my main items was trying to build something that didn't cost hundreds in track and that I could use EZ-track on. Since today is a slow day, I think I'll try doing that layout real quick in AnyRail and see how it aligns with the track I have. Definitely need one more turnout and 3 packs of 22" track ($45 right there), but I don't think I'd have to get anyting else major.

I really like that layout actually, having just played with the 1st layout I posted. My main concern, before physically trying things out, was having to back into a loop to switch trains in one direction. That's not a concern now that I've actually tried and seen how well backing through a turnout can work...

Also, the layout in this thread (http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?t=78618) is what I was going for. I think you get much more 'space' for the spurs using snap track, so that might be the main issue with my attempt.

And thanks so much for the reply - I really appreciate any insight and help I can get. I was worred about a wall of text fail on the post but figured...might as well just give all the info up front then spend time replying with details :)

[Necro]

Hrm...guess I do have a wall of text fail based on the little replies. Damn...well...the following is what I think I'm going to reconfigure to.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5568&stc=1&d=1290627243

- The gray thing is a mountain/cave. I'm considering having the track rise along the back into the cave, then come back down to the ground either inside the cave or right outside before the turnout.

- For an expansion, I'll add another 'siding' loop to the left side of this if and when I add another 2ft board. This could be 'industrial' with a setup like the right side below, maybe with a turnout that goes into a raised 15" loop...that may be too busy though.

- Now...to think on this and order more tracks...sheesh...expensive.

[choo choo]

Hrm...guess I do have a wall of text fail based on the little replies.

Don't blame yourself, Nec... there aren't all that many people here to begin with. I'd like to help, but don't have a layout yet because I'm a newbie. But I can recommend Small Layout Scrapbook:

http://www.carendt.us/scrapbook/linkindex/index.html

It's my all time favorite place to go for good information on small layouts. Every two weeks they add a new page with new layouts. Take a good look at all of the totally clever ideas on fitting a fun layout into a small space. :)

Damn...well...the following is what I think I'm going to reconfigure to.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5568&stc=1&d=1290627243

- The gray thing is a mountain/cave. I'm considering having the track rise along the back into the cave, then come back down to the ground either inside the cave or right outside before the turnout.

- For an expansion, I'll add another 'siding' loop to the left side of this if and when I add another 2ft board. This could be 'industrial' with a setup like the right side below, maybe with a turnout that goes into a raised 15" loop...that may be too busy though.

- Now...to think on this and order more tracks...sheesh...expensive.

Elevating sections of track makes for a lot more interest. You might even consider an overpass of some sort if the grades don't become too steep.

Greg

[Necro]

(Can we tell it's a slow day at work? :) )

The steepness of the grades is what had me not doing the ramps in the first place, combined with the geometry of the EZ-track and desire to have some scenery/buildings and dual loop. I'm thinking a few pieces of flex and possible a narrow turnout might be good to have a part go up as well as continue to loop around - basically, when/if I extend the layout 2 feet I have a turnout that goes either into the loop or into a grade that goes into a 15" loop raised up.

...this would all be easier with AnyRail full...but...I'm not spending $60 on design software for a holiday setup....

[tjcruiser]

Necro,

I like your modified layout a lot. Accomplishes essentially all of your goals. Your mountain will have to be somewhat steeped-faced to accomodate the tunnel portals, with the track setback distance (from the inner loop) as shown. Doable, though.

If you add a sloped section, be concious about the grade or rise divided by run. 1% or 2% should be fine. 3% is getting steep, and may limit the number of cars you can pull. 4% is pushing it, though it's been done.

Cheers,

TJ

[Necro]

Thanks TJ. I'm working with that now and flipping things around to give it more space, offset the inner track in other directions, and potentially have it so I can add a raised 15" radius circle or oval later when/if I add 2" additional. Also, I'm considering having the mountain 'open' at one point kind of like a cave overhang so you can see the train running through it in parts - something along the lines of the Disney rides where you can sometimes see the cars pass through on the actual ride track.

Adding in the 15" without connecting it to the rest of the track is easy...but what I'm thinking is add a turnout to the bigger loop, then off the curve use flex track to 'spin up' to a 6-9" flat, then hit a turnout, then go into the circle on flex track so it looks better elevated and you can see through it (compared to EZ-Track).

Also...just curious but what the suggestion for 22" radius outer instead of a 18" radius outer with 9" pieces to 'extend' the oval'? Would this only be for big loco's or for something I'm not seeing? (Reason I ask is designing a track with EZ-Track and stock turnouts is easier with 18" curves than anything else where it results in having to use/cut pieces - that and you only need 3 cards of 18" for a full loop and 4 cards of 22"...so...12-14$ savings.)

[tjcruiser]

As long as you don't plan to run large locos and long cars (like big passenger cars), doing the outer loop with 18" curves with a straight section to bump it to the proper depth will work OK. Just make sure you're OK with track-to-track clearances with the inner loop ... not just the track itself, but with the "inner curve overhang" midlength on a long car going around the turn.

I have a mountain/tunnel on my HO layout. I built the back of the tunnel with some window openings ... simply to be able to grab a train inside the tunnel if it got stuck. Well, turns out, the windows are the most exciting part of the layout for my kids. They love to look through the windows as the train goes by. Stupid me ... I should have plunked down all of the track inside a cardboard box, then cut in a few look-through windows. Would have saved me a ton of layout-building work, and the kids would have been just as happy!

TJ

[Necro]

Gah! Wait....TJ - I was going to reply in your 'Flatland' thread but didn't want to resurrect a dead threat. Your layout there is EXACTLY what I'm going for. Simple, clean, and 'friendly' to playing on. It actually reminds me of what was around my Christmas tree as a kid. And...mixing threads now - what grade is your flatland bridge section at? That's what gave me the idea for the train in a cave thing...to be honest. :)

So, the back story to this layout is that my dad had a set (O scale) when I was a kid, and thought I've wanted one for awhile I never setup anything 'decent' (an oval around a kitchen table in an apartment not being counted). I now have a son of my own, who's 18 months old so I decided to do a set now so when he's bigger, it's 'done'. When I showed him the trains going around the track I have now just sitting on my study floor...he nearly lost his mind. He had a train tub toy (plastic Thomas squeezey thing) and put it on the track and moved it around before I even showed him the trains moving.

[tjcruiser]

Necro,

Thanks for the nice comments re: my layout. Pretty simple setup, actually.

In the "do as I say, not as I do" department ...

I was space-critical with my HO layout for the twisted loop I was trying to accomplish. With my back pushed into a corner, my left-side curved rise (inside the tunnel) is somewhere around a 3.8% grade. Steep. I knew that going into it, and took a chance. It works OK for me, though I'm generally pulling just 4 or 5 cars. I need to keep the track and the loco wheels very clean to avoid wheel slippage.

So, it works, and I like it, but ... I'm kinda living on the edge.

As a site note, I made my mountain out of carved insulation foam. It's NOT glued down to the table. The whole thing lifts off, if needed. Inside, there is a foam curved ramp that's glued to the board ... the track is mounted to that.

Cheers,

TJ

[tjcruiser]

BTW ...

My boys are 8 and 5. They love building wooden (Brio-type) layouts on our living room floor ... multiple levels, reverse loops, freight yards, etc. Much more creative and complex than anything I could ever conceive. Go figure ...

TJ

[Necro]

Haha! I actually have a bunch of wooden train stuff already for my son that I've been grabbing from WOot and other places as it goes on sale. He's getting it for his 2nd birthday :)

[tjcruiser]

We got a bunch from Ikea. Thomas/Brio clones, but a LOT cheaper. Track is nice quality wood. Trains themselves are a bit simpler (and no Thomas), but the kids like it, and it's fully compatible with other Thomas/Brio stuff.

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/60112896
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/50064358

[Necro]

Woo-Hoo!!!! Wired connectors (leads?) and plastic isolates all in - the entire track layout is done!

And...to be honest...I played with it a bit tonight. Town X needed some lumber. I successfully got the lumber there with no derailment AND (unexpectedly) uncoupled the cars as well. Nice!

One odd thing that's happening...I'm losing power on my turnouts. They are Bachmann standard nickel-silver ez-track ones and it seems that the power loss is only in one direction. Also, I have two turnouts back to back (>--<) so...not sure what's going on there.

Tomorrow I'm going to the hobby store to get another connector piece to put between turnouts and a control panel for the isolated segments.

Very - VERY excited! :)

(Also, showed my son it earlier and the trains going around just blew his mind...love it!)

Also, semi-related, if any of the above seems over exuberant it's because tonight my wife went to a jewelry party and FedEx showed up 10 minutes after she left with the rest of the track I needed to finish the layout so...I'm having beer and trains night. Note that this is also the reason I stopped at 'temporary track setup' and am not doing anything permanent or working on scenery :).

[Smokestack Lightning]

Woo-Hoo!!!! Wired connectors (leads?) and plastic isolates all in - the entire track layout is done!

And...to be honest...I played with it a bit tonight. Town X needed some lumber. I successfully got the lumber there with no derailment AND (unexpectedly) uncoupled the cars as well. Nice!

One odd thing that's happening...I'm losing power on my turnouts. They are Bachmann standard nickel-silver ez-track ones and it seems that the power loss is only in one direction. Also, I have two turnouts back to back (>--<) so...not sure what's going on there.

Tomorrow I'm going to the hobby store to get another connector piece to put between turnouts and a control panel for the isolated segments.

Very - VERY excited! :)

(Also, showed my son it earlier and the trains going around just blew his mind...love it!)

Also, semi-related, if any of the above seems over exuberant it's because tonight my wife went to a jewelry party and FedEx showed up 10 minutes after she left with the rest of the track I needed to finish the layout so...I'm having beer and trains night. Note that this is also the reason I stopped at 'temporary track setup' and am not doing anything permanent or working on scenery :).

I have the same issue with my E-Z track turnout. I lose power as I aproach the end:confused: +1 on beer/trains:thumbsup: