HO Atlas remotor

[marx1]

I had a Atlas GP40-2 Phase 1 Silver HO scale engine given to me. It has geared trucks, but has nothing including the motor to the wormgear. I want to power the engine. This is a digital engine from factory according to Atlas. They stock a motor from an RS35 #780100 and all the parts in between to the wormgear. My question is, this motor has a plug that I think plugs into the P.C. Board, these wires obviously are positive and neg. for the motor, can I cut the plug off the motor and wire them directly to the trucks like the old motors. The motor that comes in this engine Atlas #891100 has diodes, they don't stock this motor. The RS35 motor looks the same and has no diodes. I don't have any of the Boards or wiring it came with and am happy to do it the old way.Can you help please?

[NIMT]

Does the new motor with the plug have 2 wires or more? If it has more then it's not as simple as just cutting off the plug.
90% use a standard DC motor so your chances are fine that you can just hook up the wires and it will work. You will want to put in a capacitor across the motor leads to buffer the motor.

[T-Man]

Capacitor. What do you recommend?

[gunrunnerjohn]

Typically, you use a 1uF non-polarized cap on motors.

[NIMT]

Yea what GRJ said!:D

[T-Man]

The non polarized makes sense. I have all old HO engines from the 80's and none have them but it sounds like a good idea.
Thanks!
Bob

[gunrunnerjohn]

Well, if you use polarized caps, it would be tough to use reverse on the engine! :D

[NIMT]

It cuts down on the arcing on the armature face and pitting of the brushes, It will not work for DCC.
Oh and if you use a polarized cap it will go bang when reversed! I used 500,000 UF Caps to blow holes in a wall when I was in college.:eek: Hated the long walk around the wall.:D

[T-Man]

What about O scale DC motors? I don't have to worry about DCC.

Aside from the arcing, it might save the lights too from spikes.

[gunrunnerjohn]

I use caps on all my TMCC installations, they are required. This applies to both AC and DC motors. I can't imagine why they'd be a problem for a non-TMCC installation.

[marx1]

If I use a 1uf non-polarized cap on the motor, should I put one on each lead of the motor? And for plane old fashion dc, can I still reverse my engine without problems? Looks like the motor that was suppose to come in the engine has 2 caps. Dosen't matter to me cause it dosen't have any original wires exept for the truck wires(no plugs). I will install the motor for use with old fashion dc, and rig some lights, I have some one way resisters for them, I think there called zeners. There already installed in other engines I have and work for shutting off the lights in opposite directions. You don't want the front light on when traveling in reverse. Yah NIMT the motor I'm getting has just two wires. Hay, I wonder if I could get the sound board for this engine and just connect the power going to the motor to it?

[gunrunnerjohn]

For DC motors, just a cap across the two terminals. For AC motors, you use one on each brush to ground.

[marx1]

So actually I'm making like a cross over tube on an exhaust pipe. A big H, with the cap in the middle? Yes, I'll be hooking up for DC. Other than arcing across the pickups, does this allow the engine to slowly gain speed and reduce speed rather than stop abruptly and cause all your stock to derail??
I read some posts on sound boards, but not much help for install in a straight DC rig, they all talk about plugging in a board thats already there. If I can get one for my 4-8-4 NY Central that would be neat, someone harvested it.

[gunrunnerjohn]

The cap doesn't affect the control of the motor at all, it's sole purpose it to prevent electrical noise from the brushes from screwing up your electronics.

[NIMT]

A sound board install on DC can get very tricky. I would avoid it if I was you! The cap will basically save the motor from extra motor wear and protect electronics and light bulbs.

[gunrunnerjohn]

Not sure what the cap does for light bulbs, but I agree with the lower arcing at the brushes helping with motor life. :)

[marx1]

Gotcha on the electronics protection, I know that buchmann put sound in their 4-8-4 NYCentral, and 2-10-4 Texas Chugger. The motors in these stink but are DC. I guess they were not sound boards. How do you make a motor ramp-up and down slowly like a good Atlas or Athearn engine?

[marx1]

Well, I guess I said the wrong thing or something.

[gunrunnerjohn]

I'm not sure what you're expecting, do you have a question?

[marx1]

I think you think I'm trying to get two things from just putting the non-polarized cap across the motor leads. But I already know the funtion of the cap.
My 2nd question is how can I get my motor to slowly let off and glide to a stop like a good Atlas will, I would incorparate this into other engines if its just a resister or something.
Buy the way, I just had a obviously polarized 14v cap blow on my 2-10-4 Texas Chugger sound board. I think it happened when I reversed the motor-

[T-Man]

That function is not the motor but the transformer. An MRC is suppose to have a delayed start and stop. I run mine too fast to notice. Look at the transformers specs.

[marx1]

I have a Tech4 MRC 200, but if I put an old steamer on, or a tyco like engine on, it will not slow the stopping of the train when abruply turned off. If I put my Atlas GP40 on or my Athearn GE U23B on, they have a noticeable difference in stopping delay. I noticed both Atlas and Athearn engines have 2 large flywheels, one on either side of the motor. Maybe the centrifical/momentum- force from these account for the carry-one travel of the engine. The other engines also have one drive shaft, some with a spiral gear directly on motorshaft-no flywheels.

[gunrunnerjohn]

Plan A is to simply close the throttle slowly and you'll get the effect you desire.

Of course, DCC will probably offer that kind of performance as well if you use the right rig, I have that capability with my Lionel Legacy TMCC system.

[marx1]

Wow T-Man, went to your signiture link, what a great idea. Got lots of info-DC to AC motor-/rectifier ,AC squarewave. Lots of good stuff there. Thanks for the great ideas(Gunrunnerjohn) . Am I way off with the flywheel idea?

[gunrunnerjohn]

In order to coast to a stop, I'd think the flywheel would have to be pretty huge. I have a couple of O-scale locomotives with pretty large flywheels, but if you cut them off flat in conventional mode (not using TMCC), they stop like they were shot. :)

[T-Man]

Don't expect a Tyco to behave like an expensive one. Be glad it works.

[marx1]

Right T-man, just an example. Gotcha, Gunrunnerjohn.

[Massey]

Flywheels will assist you in the gradual acceleration and deceleration, They take a little to allow the motor to spool up so the loco does not spin the wheels if full throttle is applied right from the get go and when you hit the brakes the flywheels will keep spinning for a second or 2 to slow the engine down. With out the flywheels, removing power will just cause the transmissions to lock up on the worm gear as soon as the motor stops.

And as was mentioned above use the throttle. Flywheels will help but the engine will still stop in a few inches and reach full speed in a foot or so.

Back when I was a kid I could not play with my Tyco trains when Mom or Dad wanted to watch TV. We used good 'ol roof mounted antena (cable did not show up in that neighborhood until the 1990's) and the noise generated from the motor in the engines would make the TV go all snowy. This didn't happen when I ran my Bachmann engine, or my Tyco Turbo Train since both of those had caps on them.

Massey