Deboarfam's Build

[deboardfam]

Havent started the build yet, just going ahead and starting a thread so I can keep all of my questions and answers in one place so not to clutter the forum and so I can go back here once I actually start construction to follow one thread.

This dream is starting to come a reality. I have decided I am going with Bachmann DCC with sound locos and using their DCC Ez Command for my first set. My wife is totally on board. She actually got me into this hobby. She just says I have to clear out my other hobby for the space and the money. I raise and breed poison dart frogs and have stuff everywhere. Several tanks.

My first loco will be the decapod susquehanna. I am unsure how this will work on my layout due to the 10 wheels. I assume it wont take tighter curves well. My layout will probably be 36" Wide in an L shape. Two 3x8 Sheets roughly and will be hitting up the forum for layout ideas as far as track. I know what I want to have as far as scenery roughly.

Questions:
I am finally learning DCC and locos, radius, etc. What about track? It seems everyone dogs the Bachmann EZ Track. I have seen an O scale layout with it without a track bed and you cant even talk over it. What is the best economical way to get a decent mid level track, focusing on quietness. Would it be feasible to use all flex track or would that be grossly expensive and unecessary?

[deboardfam]

Still debating HO or N scale. Only because of my limited space N is an idea. I havent seen either hands on but it seems to me N would be more toyish. Hard to explain. I just want to have room for everythign I want. N seems significantly more expensive though so its a juggle between space and money.

Also: Picking a time...
Do most of you pick a timeframe and stick with it... like if I wanted to do a 30's era model woudl it be dumb to have a diesel running on it. Is there a good time (say 50's) where a steam and diesel doesn't look stupid or does it really matter that much?

[waltr]

There are many ways to go about picking a time frame (era). The '50s, transition era, is a way to run both diesel and steam but if you wish to stay accurate to the time not all diesels can be run and many of the old steamers would have been scraped.
But since its your RR you can decide to run anything and make up a story to support it. Isn't that part of the fun?

I don't know where you live but in many areas there are model RR tours where you can visit people's layouts. Check with a local train store to find out if any tours exist. The tours are a lot of fun even if you need to drive some distance and you get to see what others have done and how they operate their layout.

I run HO but have seen a number of really incredible N scale layouts. It has been tempting to switch over to N.

[deboardfam]

Thanks for the input.. good point on the story. It is mostly for my wife and kids anyway. She is originally from outside of Baltimore and visited Strasburg etc a lot as a kid. Lived near the Susquehanna river. I want to recreate some of that for her.

We just got back from entertrainment junction (AMAAAZING) a couple weeks ago. It is all much larger scale though but is amazing.

N is tempting just so I can have more stuff as my space is limited.. just seems everything is double the price as far as locos etc. I really need to see some HO and N scale in person to really decide.

[sstlaure]

IMO Flextrack is easier and less expensive than "easy-track"

Easy track is good for a carpet layout.

Flextrack on cork is nearly silent. I love it. If you're planning a large layout, buy in bulk.

300 ft flextrack at trainworldonline is $279 ($2.79 each 3 ft section), you can get HO scale cork roadbed 25 pcs for $27.99 ($1.12/ for 3 ft)

If you're planning on taking up a decent amount of space, do yourself a favor and try to stick with min 24" radius. If you do this you should be able to run almost anything on your layout from small to very large engines & cars.

[deboardfam]

Thanks scott. You seem to be helping me the most! lol You answer all of my stuff. Flextrack with cork it is sounds like.

I find packages of like 10 36" flex track on ebay for like $35... I wont need a crazy amount of track. I just want enough to run 2 seperate trains on two rails. 3 trains total but 2 can run on one setup with Dcc. Okay.. so.. lets see what we can work out. Take a 3x8 piece of wood... and a 3x5 piece of wood. Make an L shape.. and lets talk track plans. For now.. lets talk HO.

I want at least a city scape.. mountain with tunnel in the corner.
Couple loops.. an area to store a couple locos/trains. I would prefer to have some height with a bridge but dont know if I can handle the grades.
Hoping that the master guru planner will chime in :-)

[sstlaure]

Get some graph paper and layout to scale the area you have to work with. Get a basic overall of the area. Figure out how long your trains will be (max length), then design from there.

Any passing sidings, yard tracks should be long enough for your longest train. There are quite a few layout magazines available that will five you tons of ideas. I recommend doing a TON of research before you start cutting anything as once you're going, you're bound to come up with more ideas.

[deboardfam]

Cool scott. The only area I have in my house will fit this size. So the layout has to be this size so I just need to figure out and decide if I want to cram an Ho setup in there or an N scale. Ho should be fine and I should be able to do a decent amount with it in that space.

[deboardfam]

Sold some frogs...

Bidding on a decapod DCC w/sound on ebay now... Susquehanna :-)

Also found a good deal on a Bachmann EZ Command..

So it begins MUAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

[deboardfam]

Lost the ez command :-(
Still holding out hope for my decapod.

Still looking for the best deal on the ez command.. even a used one if you good googlers get bored later.

Still debating on how I am going to setup my layout. The biggest I can go is 3 foot wide. I could also make it curved or angled so the inner part is thinner and easier to access. This would give me less real estate but would probably be more pleasing to the eye. Would look a little more professional than just a sheet of plywoodn throw on some 2x4s I would think. What kind of scene I want is really driving me nuts. I really need to see some HO stuff with people in the pics or see some hands on so I can really get an idea of the scale.
I would love to set up a small loop in a city to have just a trolley on that runs around the city and out through the mountains. hmmmmm.. The ideas are brewing. Maybe have two cities.. one on each end of the L. Dog bone the middle of the layout a little. Do some country scenes and hills in the thinner sections. I really want to incorporate a bridge/depth.. I want to avoid a completely flat layout.

[Massey]

Just a note on the DCC. The BAchmann system "sounds" good but you are actually going to limit yourself if you buy it. The system can only support 3 or 4 N scale engines at any given time and maybe 3 HO scale at a time. The system is also limited in what CVs it can work with and not all sound engines will have all of their functions on the EZ command. Yes Ez command is really cheap but if you want to upgrade in the future you will have to toss the old system for a new one. Why not start with a system that can grow with your layout and never be oblolete?

Enter the Digitrax Zephyr system. This is a full function DCC system that can be used with other DIgitrax components and even a PC as well. The price is less than 200 for the first set and the new upgraded set is just a little over 200, less at times too. It is money well spent and the Zephyr set is a full capable DCC set that allows full CV programing and CV readback too. Read back is very important for getting some loco settings just right.

As for the scale N and HO are both very detailed and both can range from Toy like to fine craft details. Preference is your call, price is right about the same for either scale but N decoders tend to be a little higher and more specailzed than HO decoders. In my area HO equipment is much easier to find. Also you need to consider that with N scale you pay the same price for each unit but that same price gets you a larger and more detailed model in HO. If you have kids or will have some in the future, you cant get Thomas in N scale... Im just sayin!

I also second the flex track and cork. Either scale you will bennifit from the use of flex track. Here are a couple of pros and cons.

EZ track pros.
quick
easy to assemble a layout in a short amount of time

Cons.
Limited in your configurations.
Limited track types.
Noisy
greater expence

Flex track Pros
Unlimited track configurations.
Many different track pieces
Custom rail configurations possible with hand laying (see fastracks)
readily available, and fixed shapes also available

Cons.
Takes longer to build
Higher skill level to lay track well but not too hard to pick up in a weekend.

Let us know what you have and if you need help with a track plan we are here to assist you as well.

Massey

[deboardfam]

Thanks for the details..lots of good info there. I may go with the zephyr. Definately going HO then if there is no Thomas. I was leaning towards it anyway but I definately want some thomas stuff for my son. This is going to be a bonding experience for him and I. Sounds like I will definately go flex track as well. Going to take my time and build this right. I am an IT analyst so should be easy enough to pick up for me plus I am still young and can climb around and get under things and still have my eyesight :-) (I am only 27).

The layout will definately be in a certain part of my house (my living room actualy, so the noise of ez track made that decision). Will have a 3x8 section against one wall in the corner.. then roughly a 5x8 section joined to it along the other wall to make the L shape. Still havent decided if I am going to dogbone the layout any. Depends on the layout. I want enough track to run at least 2 trains at once and have a few sidings or places to park another train or two. Want enough room to pack as much scenery as I can in. Ours is more about the scenery than the trains. My fiance loves the moving models (swing sets, etc). Trying to find a good source for those. I would like a section lower than the others to create a river/water with a bridge over it so I can add in some fishing etc themed items. Otherwise I am really open to ideas and extremely extremely green to this whole hobby or trains in general. I definately want some height in it. Dont want all of the track to be perfectly flat. I need to research how you guys make the awesome rocks and mountains.

[deboardfam]

Woot bidding on a zephyr starter set.. lets see how this goes.
If i get the zephyr.. and the train I am bidding on. Theoretically to get it rolling all I will need is some track right? Just to test the loco and play around a bit.. learn the zephyr?

[gc53dfgc]

you need to remember that the Ez command is a 1 amp powered system. It will not be able to power more then 1 sound engine at a time. I got a dynamis system and a 5 amp booster for under 300 dolalrs and they all work great. Now I would go with the ESU Navigator with computer interface for my step up because that is who made the Dynamis for Bachmann and it is one of the best handheld wireless out of the box systems that I have found. It just does not always allow the engine to be shutdown or started up like in real life.

The Zypher is also a good starter set and is better then the ex command. I personally don't like how it is setup to be just like a normal DC system and everything but it is nice for those jsut starting and allows them to use a couple of DCC engines at a time if they want.

[deboardfam]

Sweet thanks for the info.. yeah I think you guys talked me into the zephyr.
That should give me more amps. I dont plan on having a big layout for a while. At least until I am out of this tiny house.

Track plans.. where is cabledawg when I need him lol

[waltr]

I bought the Zephyr years ago to start with DCC. It works well and is expandable. I later got the UT2 hand controller that plugs directly into the Zephyr so I could walk around to follow the train. This also allows two operators to run two trains at the same time on any piece of track including one engine in 'helper service'. This is loads of fun and the biggest advantage of DCC over DC.
If I need to expand I would add a Booster and some LocoNet panels so I could plug remotes in from different locations. The Zephyr would be very good at a yard since the operations are in a localized area.

[deboardfam]

Sold more frogs.. getting my train cash tommorow and found an AMMMMMMAAAZIIINNNNG local store that has tons and tons of train stuff at a good price. Most rolling stock was like $7 a piece. Flex track for $3.79 a 3 foot piece. Think I may stop by if they are open tommorow after I drop my frogs up and pick up a bunch of flex track and some cars and maybe something else a building or something. Just to have something. They have a really nice n scale layout and I realize that it is way too small for what I am trying to achieve. I love them though and want to set one up sometime but for my first. HO it is. Im worried about the layout and what I am going to be able to fit. Afraid its going to take up a bunch of usuable living room space. If i can find a way to hang my plasma on the other wall it would be great.

[deboardfam]

Flex track question.. what kind of switches do you buy?
I have a bid out on a susquehanna steamer.. a western maryland diesel.. and a zephyr..

[big ed]

Sold more frogs.. getting my train cash tommorow and found an AMMMMMMAAAZIIINNNNG local store that has tons and tons of train stuff at a good price. Most rolling stock was like $7 a piece. Flex track for $3.79 a 3 foot piece. Think I may stop by if they are open tommorow after I drop my frogs up and pick up a bunch of flex track and some cars and maybe something else a building or something. Just to have something. They have a really nice n scale layout and I realize that it is way too small for what I am trying to achieve. I love them though and want to set one up sometime but for my first. HO it is. Im worried about the layout and what I am going to be able to fit. Afraid its going to take up a bunch of usuable living room space. If i can find a way to hang my plasma on the other wall it would be great.

What do the people who buy your frogs do with them?
Are they poisonous?:confused:
I never had a pet frog.:D

[deboardfam]

There are several different types of dart frog hobbyist. Some believe they are helping save them from endangerment. A conservation effort so to speak. Some keep them as pets. Some raise to breed (they are worth a LOT of money). I did the latter two. Amazing animals. Personality. Color. Plus its like an indoor garden. I grow lots of varying tropical plants in their tanks. Begonias, Orchids, etc.

The animals themselves are extremely interesting. Their mating rituals. Etc. They are great parents and raise their own young. Just lots of cool things about them. I should end up with enough to make a heck of an HO layout once I sell all of my stock off. I had several breeds in several different tanks.

Edit: forgot an answer to a question.. They are EXTREMELY poisonous in the wild depending on the breed but not in captivity. It is all diet based.

[deboardfam]

Woot.. bought about 30 foot of flex track and cork bed, a B&O coal car, some trees, and a thomas analog engine for my son today. So it begins.

Found out there is a big train show coming close to me next month as well.

[Massey]

Depending on your engine you may be able to get away with some 18" radius curves which would give you a turn around and leave you some living room left. Most GP type diesel engines can handle 18" just fine some even 15" IF you do go with 18" you will need at least 38" to make a U shaped loop. That is 36" for the track and only 1" for a buffer to the edge of the layout. 2" would be better. Alot of steam engines will not like 18" just to let you know. Thomas will take 12" with no major issues. Thomas can be upgraded to DCC pretty easily and I would recomend doing so if you are going to be running him with your Zephyr system much. Did you win the auction? And are you bidding on the old starter set or the newer xtra set?

Keep us up to date!!

Massey

[deboardfam]

Havent won the auction yet.. I am not sure. It is a grandpa selling it. I would assume its the older. From some videos it looks a lot harder to use than the bachman ez command. I didnt win the susquehanna steam. I am on the lookout for a DCC steam with sound for cheap. I found one for $99 on another site. Thats not too bad. Any tips on looking for a used zephyr? I really dont want to pay $200 for one.

Question.. rail joiners for the flex track? any tips on what to get and how to use them? So I am going to need at least 38" to get it to turn fully around? Hmm.. maybe I shoulda went N scale. GRRR.. I need a bigger house. Not sure what to do.

[deboardfam]

.. Im thinkin i should probably go n scale.. :-( If at all....
The woman is getting on to me.

[Massey]

I have been watching that same set. I am thinking about getting my son a Zephyr set for X-mas. That would enable him to run his trains on his layout as well as mine. I told him that he needs to get better with his numbers and once he knows how to tell what number is what I would upgrade his engines for him.

Massey

[deboardfam]

Same set on ebay? LOL was it you bidding me up at the end?
I ended up winning the auction.. $134.. not too bad..

Got me a zephyr.. gotta figure out how to use it. I got a bunch of other n scale buildings, people, trees, etc... going tuesday to switch out my ho track with n scale flex track. It is starting to come together nicely.

[big ed]

There are several different types of dart frog hobbyist. Some believe they are helping save them from endangerment. A conservation effort so to speak. Some keep them as pets. Some raise to breed (they are worth a LOT of money). I did the latter two. Amazing animals. Personality. Color. Plus its like an indoor garden. I grow lots of varying tropical plants in their tanks. Begonias, Orchids, etc.

The animals themselves are extremely interesting. Their mating rituals. Etc. They are great parents and raise their own young. Just lots of cool things about them. I should end up with enough to make a heck of an HO layout once I sell all of my stock off. I had several breeds in several different tanks.

Edit: forgot an answer to a question.. They are EXTREMELY poisonous in the wild depending on the breed but not in captivity. It is all diet based.

So if I bought a poison frog, what would one feed it to make it poisonous?

I have seen them on the Animal TV shows.:D Some are very colorful.

What do they eat in the wild to make them poisonous?

How much do you sell one for after you raise it?
Do you need an exotic permit to own one?
How long do they live, on the average?

Sorry to take away from the train thread.:ohwell:
You could make a Custom Frog Transport car for the RR and give them a ride around the layout.:D:thumbsup:

[Massey]

NO I didnt bid you up on it. Once I found out you were looking for it I just kept my eye on it but did not bid. I didnt want to take it away from you when I dont really have a use for it for another few months. I am thinking about just biting the bullet and getting him the extra set anyway.

Massey

[deboardfam]

LOL I was just kidding massey... I appreciate it though. This is one of the big pieces of getting my layout done.

Biged.. lol you have a big interest in these darts. I had 6 breeds. 4 large breeds and 2 thumbnails. The large breeds get around 2 inches in length. Thumbnails are just that. As big as your thumbnail full size. The breeds I raise/raised were Tinc Cobalt, Tinc Azureus (common one, crazy blue), Green and Bronze auratus, Orange Lamasi, Northern Variablis, and Leucomelas (my favorite, beautiful canary like call). Google images any of those to see what they look like.

In the wild they eat different bugs and its the way their stomach breaks them down.. They secrete it through their glands like sweat. You also absorb the poison (actually a neurotoxin) through your skin. So all you really have to do is touch it. The most poisonous (and just happens to be the largest dart) are terriblis. Interesting story, a while back I ran across a story of a bird who metabolized and breaks down the same bugs the same way and it is actually poisonous as well. I dont know the whole story, just caught a piece of it while at work.

As far as selling, it varies. The types I had were pretty common to mid range in rarity and ranged from $30 to $75 as babies.. $100-$200 as sexed adults. A breeding group in season will lay eggs every couple weeks if not more. It varies by the group. Also yield will vary, smaller thumbs will lay 3-5 eggs or so, larger can lay 5-ive seen up to 12. Obligate feeders (they actually feed their tadpoles unfertilized eggs, making them MUCH more difficult to rasie) i have seen go for $100 - $1000 a piece for babies depending on the type and locale.

You dont need a permit as they are not poisonous in captivity. The tanks/setups are just as interesting as the animal. Growing any type of tropical plants. You essentially create a biotope. Seal off the tank. Raise the humidity up into th 80's to mimic the rain forest. Provide light. Watch it grow.

Extremely interesting hobby. I hate to see it go. But need something with less worry. We travel a lot and go on vacations and work a lot. Plus my 4 year old is getting old enough to get into a hobby with me. My wife misses her home in Marylan d so much. She loves history. This was her idea. I am a super tech geek and enjoy history and built models with my dad when I was a kid. So here I am. The model train hobby.

[deboardfam]

Forgot an answer.. quite possibly one of the coolest parts. Darts in captivity are known to live upwards of 20 years. around 14-15 on average.

[sstlaure]

I used to have tons of snakes and reptiles. Between my roommate and myself we had Egyptian Euromastix (2), Bearded Dragons (2), Iguanas (3), Ball Pythons (2), Day Geckos, various corn and king snakes, etc.....I can see the attraction of frogs. Always liked the poison dart frogs. Got out awhile ago due to travel, etc.

My buddy had a Tiger Salamander get in his pool. Not sure how long he was in there, but I went over, rinsed him off and put him in a small terrarium and brought him home. Unfortunately he died a couple days later (wouldn't eat, hardly moved the whole time.) I think the chlorine did him in.

[deboardfam]

Awesome scott.. I wanted to get a beardy for my kid. Think I will stick with trains for similar reasons you got out. Traveling. I commute 1 hour one way to work every day. We are just gone too much. If I dont feed the trains they dont die. I dont have to breed food. Worry about water. Etc. So much easier.

Train question... Joiners.. I am taking back my HO scale track today and getting N scale (hopefully flex track). How do I join the rails together? I know there is insulated joiners, non insulated,etc. For basic loops and a couple sidings and a staging area on a full DCC setup what will I need to pick up today at the hobby shop? Are the rail road tacks that look like real spikes worth it?

Next question, zephyr, are there any good writeups for a complete noob on how to use it? I was watching a few good youtube vids and learned a lot but that dude was new to the zephyr to. Every time he hit recall his other train would pick up the speed that was on the dial. I dont want this to happen.

Last question, wiring (UGHHHH). I will be wiring the zephyr up. Instructions say to just put one to one rail and one to the other. I have read you want to put one on a certail rail (inside or outside depending on planned direction of the train). Also.. you guys said to run power every few feet. Is that needed with the zephyr on my layout (L shape 3x8). If so, how do I do it?

Addendum to last question.. wiring accessories.. I assume you use a seperate power supply with a heavy gauge going in to some type of distribution block where you can wire tons of stuff in. Where can I find info and also where to buy this stuff. Do you guys have your accessories (building lights, etc) wired to switches?

[sstlaure]

Bearded Dragons eat a LOT. My roommate and I were buying crickets by the thousands.

By the time we graduated college we had 8 large aquariums and 2 decent sized iguana cages (the largest one was close to 40" and litter trained - he was allowed to roam and typically sunned himself on top of the beer-amid in the corner (giant pile of Michigan $0.10 returnables)

The big guy decided to tip over the cricket cage while we were both out of town and infested the apartment. Although being in the city, having the chirping of crickets to sleep by wasn't the end of the world.

Now trains:

If you want a continuous circuit, connect the tracks with metal joiners.

If you want to isolate a section of track (to make a separate block that you can turn on/off) connect it at both ends with isolated joiners.

The electricity flows down the track from section to section through the joiners. Some solder the joints between rails, some don't. I will eventually just to make sure the joints don't shift over time once I have everything completely laid and I know I won't be taking them back apart.

I'm not sure on wiring a Zephyr, but it should be a positive and one negative lead coming out for power. I also have to say my experience is wiring in HO and I don't know if the voltage requirements for N are lower, I'm sure others will chime in with corrections if I'm way off base.

These are Atlas switches - not the greatest and I will upgrade eventually, but they get the job done. At the lower left are the +/- leads from the power-supply. These create inputs into your switches. You can see the switch packs are screwed together, the small metal tabs between the sets of switches pass the +/- power from the input down the line of switches.

You can see a number of up/down switches, each with red/white leads coming out: red = +, white = neg or ground. Each of these controls a single power block. You can have as many or as few blocks as you want. I like having quite a few because it makes finding electrical shorts easier when they occur (turn switches on/off until the short disappears)

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11988&stc=1&d=1317734509

I use #14 multistrand wire for my main buss (long runs from on/off switches to dist block, then from dist block out to track. Buss runs parallel along each track.)

I then use #20 single strand wire for my power drops. These are a much smaller diameter and I keep them no longer than ~4" long. I drill small (1/16") holes on either side of the track on the outboard sides of the rail. I then insert the drops down through the hole. (What you are doing is creating a path for the electricity to go from the buss wire into the drops then into the rails.)

Here you can see the drops coming through the table and being attached to the buss. I now use what are called suitcase connectors instead of soldering. (This pic is from my old layout) Just keep all positive leads red and all negative leads white and stay consistent on which rail you make +/- and you'll be fine. If once you get everything wired up your throttle works backwards, just switch the main +/- leads going into your layout for each other and that will correct it.

It's important for DCC to have a continuous consistent supply of power. You could probably get away with wiring every other section of track so long as you also soldered the joiners between a section that is wired and one that is not to ensure good continuity between the track sections. I personally wire every section. A little more work up front for reliable operations later. But I'm anal like that.:laugh:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11989&stc=1&d=1317734509

Here you can see the placement of the powerdrops on the topside of the rails. I bend them into a small "L", then bend the leg of the L in towards the rail @ 90 degrees. This creates a leg that will nest down into the outboard side of the rail where the vertical part of the rail meets the base. (inside corner) I solder these into place. You'll hardly see them once ballast is applied.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11990&stc=1&d=1317735401

For AC powered accessories (lights, switches, etc) I just use a 12V AC adapter left over from something (can't remember what it was - any 12V AC adapter will do) I cut the connector off the end and wired the +/- leads up to a separate distribution block and wired accessories from there. You can pick them up for $5 at just about any junk swap or train show. (Old cellphone chargers work fine too. Most people have those laying around.)

[bradimous1]

great info... thanks Scott

[deboardfam]

Wow great write up.. that needs pulled out and stickied somewhere LOL.

So just a couple questions off that... how do you connect the leads you have coming through to the flex track? I know you said you soldered it.. but to where exactly? Directly to the rail if I read right?

So you have power coming from an outlet to the distribution block on the left.. thats "main power" so to speak. Then on/offs attached to it for switches, accessories, etc. So you just have a cell charger spliced and hooked up to the distro on the left?

[Massey]

For the Zephyr's wiring there is no + or - the zephyr delivers AC current to the track. Just pick a wire and attach it to a rail. Attach the other wire to the other rail and make sure that you don't get the rails mixed up if you add more feeders down the line. Depends on the layout you may add feeders every 3 or 4 feet. On a small layout like a 4x8 or so I would put one on each end of the layout and call it good.

To keep things in order I pick one rail and one color of wire and I wire that single rail up with all the feeders I plan on using first. That color then gets attached to the bus wire before I start on the other side. I would use suitcase connectors or solder to attach feeders to the bus wires. ON my current layout my bus wire was solid core bell wire that has 3 wires inside. One is green that I dont use and the other two are red and white. I used the red for all the same rail and tied that to the red bell wire. Each power district I used has its own color of feeder wire that attaches to the white bell wire. This enables me to troubleshoot any wiring problems quick and easy.

on a simple layout with no districts or reversing sections you dont have to color code everything but it is a good idea on larger layouts.

The instructions for the Zephyr are good at letting you know how to use the system. If you dont get the instructions you can download them from Digitrax

Massey

[sstlaure]

Wow great write up.. that needs pulled out and stickied somewhere LOL.

So just a couple questions off that... how do you connect the leads you have coming through to the flex track? I know you said you soldered it.. but to where exactly? Directly to the rail if I read right?

So you have power coming from an outlet to the distribution block on the left.. thats "main power" so to speak. Then on/offs attached to it for switches, accessories, etc. So you just have a cell charger spliced and hooked up to the distro on the left?

Directly to the rail is correct.....Hopefully this sketch clears it up.

I strip about 1/2" of the #20 wire, then bend the end at 90 degrees to form an L, then, with the leg of the L running parallel to the tracks, I bend the L in toward the track (so the leg can nest against the rail on the outboard side.) As the trains run on the inboard side of the rail this doesn't interfere with anything, just make sure after soldering that you didn't get any on top of the rail.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12001&stc=1&d=1317743044

[deboardfam]

Thanks massey, yeah mine will be fairly simple as far as reversing loops. I plan on having a decent amount of track and a decent space so I may have to figure out how to wire the extra pieces. Basic few loops of track.. maybe some intertwining but nothing major. I gotta get my tables built.. then a rough layout sketched.. and have you guys critique and add in a few things. Do you split the leads off the main power and just run them or do they need to be seperate. So one wire coming from the rail a and rail b.. then split 3 or so times to get power to the others?

Wiring is going to be my big hangup point in this hobby lol.

Scott.. thanks.. thats what I thought but was afraid it would mess with the wheels. Perfect sketch. Guess I have to polish up on my soldering skills.

[sstlaure]

I just have the leads from the main power screwed into a conventient place in the benchwork. I then just stack the various power outputs from there. Wood is a great insulator, I simply use a small deck screw to secure it.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12002&stc=1&d=1317748547

Avoid outside 90 degree corners on the table if you can - you'll invariably catch the table with your hip and get a nice scrape.

[deboardfam]

Yeah I have one section i will have to get rid of the corner. The rest will be against wall or against my couch so wont be too bad. Just gotta start planning track layout etc. Researching the plaster sheets vs foam method for hills and things as well. Cant wait to get my zephyr tommorow.

[Massey]

Look in the DCC section I did a work up on basic DCC wiring. It applies to all scales, and since I own Digitrax equipement I used that as my reference.

Massey

[deboardfam]

Going to start building my table next week.
So what is the proper process for building a layout.. Start with track?
Put down the grass mat then put track?

I do have the cork roadbed... have tacks and a tack hammer.
So you layout track and wiring.. then start building scenery around it?

[sstlaure]

I go in this order....

1) basic benchwork
2) sub-roadbed (1/2" plyboard cut approx 4-5" wide underneath where track will be)
3) Cork
4) Track
5) Wiring
6) Land forms
Last) Scenery

As you can see from my build thread - I stagger this work and try to get sections running as I go. This allows me to not only test the work completed to see if I need to tear something up before proceeding, it also gives me something to play with until I get everything done.

If you want to have rivers, bridges, etc, make sure you elevate your bottom-most layer of plyboard above the benchwork by a couple inches so that you can cut out sections that go below track grade to create river bottoms, etc.

I seriously wouldn't worry about track spikes at this point, just glue the cork/track down until you know everything is working reliably, then spike the track at the end if you feel the need to further secure it. I use Alene's tacky craft glue (cheap - available at Walmart in a BIG bottle) and it works great. Cork/wood bond is incredible as when I pulled up some glued cork from my old layout it pulled out wood from the plyboard rather than leaving cork on the wood. It also required using a small flatblade screwdriver to pry the track up off of the cork. I just use thumbtacks to hold the track down while it's drying.

You'll have to glue the cork down and tack it and let it dry for ~2 hrs before you can then pull the tacks and glue the track down on top.

[deboardfam]

OK so you dont put a layer of pink foam down first or anything straight ply to roadbed? Landforms.. I see a lot of people use plaster cloth with cardboard. Does this seem to be the typical method?

What do you use for basic flat ground cover? say for a grassy area.
Sand I am gonna source from my pool store buddy.

[sstlaure]

I'm going to use real dirt for the base layer (not the purchased kind, the kind that comes from my 4+ acres of already paid for land ;) ) on top of brown painted plastercloth....I'll glue it down with scenic cement. Then I'll follow that up with ground foam and static grasses (make BEAUTIFUL fake grass with the static grasses that are available.)

I'm not a fan of the grassmat as it doesn't have a very realistic appearance. When I do finally get around to scenery - I want it as real as possible.

On my old layout I started by using the 2" thick foam, but for access inside tunnels, etc I found that the woven cardboard/plastercloth method worked well for me as the insides of hills, etc are hollow and allow easier access to those areas for cleaning/maintenance.

NIMT had a sticky about landforms using screen and plaster that I may try this time around as well. Plaster soaked paper towels are a cheap alternative to the pre-prepped plaster cloth. (which can get expensive) If you have a medical supply place nearby check them for the plastercloth used for arm/leg casts - cheaper than the hobby shop.

I'll still use the 2" foam in some areas where I need hills but I don't need any access underneath the landforms.

Bottom-line is there are many ways to skin a cat and they are all correct, just depends on what you're comfortable with.

[deboardfam]

Bottom-line is there are many ways to skin a cat and they are all correct

The problem is this is my first cat.. and I know nothing about cats. :laugh:

Just afraid to mess something up.. get everything laid out and glued down then realized I missed a layer.

This is a heck of a lot of research involved. Much worse than any other hobby I have been in LOL. I really need to sit down and think it out and plan. Think I may have to download some track planning software and figure out what I am going to do building wise. Doesnt appear to be something you can really do on the fly.

[bradimous1]

how I am doing this, and I am no pro, is I am making sure that I have everything in place prior to putting down the track... if you follow the steps to build the table how you like, you will be able to see the next steps as you go.

as mentioned... start with the benchwork (actual table)
once this is completed, if you want to use foam, put that down next.
I am not using cork with my foam, but that would be the next step
from there, if you are building mountains or such, I would do this next as you don't want to get the actual track dirty.
after you have elevations set, then go for laying the actual track.

just follow logic and you will be able to see everything coming together. as for the research part, I feel your pain... but the more you do in advance, the more enjoyable the build goes (for me at least as I tend to get frustrated).

[deboardfam]

Yeah I know the feeling. I am just going to have to play around and draw a few ideas out.

I know I want a nice size mountian in the corner of the V with some tunnels.. Otherwise I dont have the other stuff planned yet. It will all just be small, nothing major.

[waltr]

Yep, there are a lot of ways to skin this cat. There is also a ton of info on the web for each stage of a layout build. So also spend some time googling and reading.

As to the track plan: First is determine the size of the layout. Clear the floor in that area and layout some track connect to the controller (DC or DCC) then run some trains. This starts giving you a feel for the layout size, operations and to work out how some of this stuff works. I use Atlas Snap track and some Atlas flex track for this.

If you do know closer to the layout size then build the bench supports and lay plywood down with just enough screws to hold it flat. Layout your track plan and start having some fun. The track does not need to be fastened or do you need roadbed at this stage.

[deboardfam]

Thanks for the info. I will probably start building the table next week.

I want to have some raised sections of track. I dont want it all to be flat. So I need to factor that in as well.

I have all flex track at this point and no switches.. I will have to buy the switches as I start to plan.

[waltr]

Start with a simple oval that is flat just to get a train running and figure out basics and your DCC.

[Massey]

How many switches are you planning on using? If the answer is more than 5 of the same type then I would suggest making them instead of buying them. The Fastrack system is easy to do and even a novice can build high quality switches in a short time for a fraction of the cost of commercial switches. The initial price seems steep at close to $200 but when you think about $15-$24 per #4 switch you only get 3 or 4 for the same amount of money laid down. with the jigs you only need to provide a few basic supplies and you have an unlinited number of switches and each one you make, lowers the cost of the jig. My next purchase of train stuff is going to be the #4 turnout set for code 100 track, and a few extra PC ties. Just take a look at the jigs it is not a bad way to spend a few $$$

As for the benchwork you need to first map your train room as accuratly as possible. THen you can start your design work for the track plan. Have you figured out if you are going with N or sticking with HO?


Massey

[mopac]

Lots of how to build a layout on "you tube". Tons of videos.

[deboardfam]

Massey.. id assume more than 5... build them? Hmm... lol I need to be more crafty for this hobby.

[deboardfam]

Definately going N scale.. Have my table pretty much planned out. Will hopefully start construction on it next week. Then gotta get a rough layout of where I want a few structures and mountains etc. Then see if cabledawg or you guys can help me plan a few extras in the track.

[deboardfam]

Got my corner all cleaned out.. so ready to start construction on the table. Problem is, I am kind of liking the really open space in the living room now.
How feasible would it be to build a pulley system for my odd shaped V layout? I have seen pulley systems before but not for an odd shaped layout like mine. If I cut it down to like 3x6 on one side and 3x5 on the other could it be done? These things arent too heavy are they?

Im just brainstorming out loud here.
Also was going to build some shelving and a toy chest into the side of my layout if I build it on the floor. Instead of going the cloth route, but still giving me some form of acess to get underneath it. Also will help to keep kids out of it.

[sstlaure]

I don't think it would be too hard, I've seen a few layouts that could be hoisted up (typically in a garage though) If you use 1x4 & 1x3 lumber for the framing it won't end up very heavy. If I were to do such a thing I'd probably mount some drawer slides on the wall in a few spots to keep the motion completely vertical while lifting.

[tankist]

it will be possible, but think how your living room will look with the layout in stowed position. unless you carefully design it it will be one ugly thing (we don't normaly pay attention to underside).
also, things tend to fall down, and unless built absolutely bullet-proof i will be concerned about my house mates getting crushed under it in case of failure.

however, how about fold-to-the-wall? deploy and then attach removable module to make it the "L". mine is 7 feet tall when folded, unfolds down and slides up on 2 super-strut rails. to ugly for living room, but plenty aesthetic for the garage...
pic 3 with additional modules attached.

http://images110.fotki.com/v629/photos/6/733156/7673837/DSC_8305-vi.jpg

http://images50.fotki.com/v1525/photos/6/733156/7673837/DSC_8341-vi.jpg

http://images17.fotki.com/v1622/photos/6/733156/7673837/DSC_4782-vi.jpg

[deboardfam]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm Fold wouldnt be too bad but then you would have to make sure everything is 100% glued down right. Every little person and everything. So it wouldnt be editable. Hmm. Yeah I think the hoist idea is out. Crushing my kids kind of threw that out the window.
I will have to look at your pics when I get home tankist, cant see them from work.

[sstlaure]

If you built an upper fascia for the layout to lift into, when the layout was in the up position it would look just like a soffit. Maybe some foldable or removable legs for stability when it's in the down position.

It would take a bit of engineering, but it could be done very cleanly.

[deboardfam]

Ahh crap just remembered.. the one section is in front of a window.
I will probably just have to build it in and build some shelving and usable space underneath it. Toy chest. Etc but still leave room to access the wiring.

[tankist]

Scott, base is an absolute must, but that's actually a simplest matter here: ie pair of saw horses.

yes it can be done and was done before. but i don't think someone will less the absolute pro level of carpentry skill can accomplish something like this to look sufficiently attractive and 150% safe. have a a redundant mounts in case of improbable failure or some other fail-safe solutions. i'm not attempting anything like that. just my 2 cents

[deboardfam]

Yeah looks like I am building in :-(
Going to measure everything out tonight.
Going to stop by the hobby store on the way home too and try to find me a DCC engine.

[deboardfam]

Picked this guy up yesterday. LOVE IT. Gonna have to pick up some weathering chalk.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqZ,!hYE1fq8ePqqBNe1Z!YyE!~~_3.JPG

[bradimous1]

Picked this guy up yesterday. LOVE IT. Gonna have to pick up some weathering chalk.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqZ,!hYE1fq8ePqqBNe1Z!YyE!~~_3.JPG

awesome... I got into model trains thanks to my great uncle... he had a beautiful HO layout when I was a kid and his favorite loco looked identical to this one... so I am a bit partial to Chessie. Have two Chessie cars, but no locos yet... next purchase.

[deboardfam]

Awesome.. This wasnt the exact one I wanted but the hobby shop didnt have many DCC N scale stuff.

My wife is originally from right outside of Baltimore.. we both love history.. my son of course loves trains. So here I am in the train hobby. Trying to bring a little bit of Maryland back to Kentucky for her.

[tankist]

congrads on new engine (bach spectrum gp35, right?), but between this and dcc thread i cannot but feel like you taking it all in wrong order. like you have dcc station, but don't have surface to run on. that one is minor , but you get your first engine and say "Gonna have to pick up some weathering chalk. " are you really going to attempt your first weathering job on your top engine? its not rocket science of course , but things still can get screwed up and it is advised to practice on the cheap stuff first to get the feel for it. or did i miss it in your introduction and you are a seasoned weatherer?

[bradimous1]

I am from outside of Baltimore as well... 30 minutes north of the city in PA... but trying to bring a little Baltimore to MA now

[deboardfam]

She is from Havre De Grace and also lived in Port Deposit. She still has family in Port Deposit and Rising Sun.

LOL Tankist.. no.. I am just collecting pieces of stuff I need as the money comes in.
I now have track, the zephyr, cars, and a loco and plans on size and location for the table. Just need a couple 2x4s.

I have a half weathered car that is a little beat up and a few houses to play with that wont hurt. Ebay specials..

That is also an Atlas GP35... definately not going to be my top engine. Just grabbed a cheaper DCC to get me started. Top engine will be a steamer with sound.

[deboardfam]

I dug out some old lifelike and another brand transformer/throttle that has accessory hook ups. Can I use these to run my switches and accessories?

[Massey]

yup, I have done that in the past so I imagine you can too.

Massey

[deboardfam]

Got my table built.. just have to throw some ply down.

Question. To foam or not to foam? I see some put a few layers of foam down for carving etc? Some dont... Just trying to figure out whats easiest/best. Will start laying track as soon as I figure out this question and cabledawg finishes perfecting the layout ;-)

[tjcruiser]

Foam benefit is twofold: ability to carve, and also big reduction in noise/vibration of the trains. Downside (a minor one) is that it doesn't hold nails/brads for mounting track/accessories. But glue and/or caulk adhesive can be your friend there.

TJ

[cabledawg]

Ok, first go at N scale layout design. I dont know much about N scale, so I had to read up on track spacing and radii and I think this one should do just fine. I went with double mainline and the occasional crossover. The ones on top and the left can work like a run around tracks as well. The coal tipple needed some space so I started from the left side and brought the track over to the right for the actual tipple area. I added a short 18" spur under the mountain for loco/car storage. There are a couple spur tracks next to the tipple for inbound/outbound coal cars. A real tipple would have double ended sidings so the switcher could just run through, but with limited space the stub ends do the trick.

As always, feel free to criticize. :cool:

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12106&d=1318737710

[deboardfam]

Thanks TJ.. I think I may go without. These N scale dont seem too loud as it is even without cork roadbed underneath. Will play with them on the ply tonight and see how it is. I plan on going the plaster route for any type of mountains/hills.

cabledawg.. wow awesome! I love how you have the parking spot in the hill :-) Fits right in with my christmas idea. I had planned to get my son a Thomas and hide it in the mountain and let him pull it out on christmas day. That works awesome!

What does everyone recommend for switches? A lot of the power switches seem to be around $25 or so. If you need a few of them that can add up quickly. Does everyone use powered switches on all? In short.. what do you guys recommend on a cost effective way to achieve this? To build the coal tipple alone will be what? 4 switches? This is the part I havent got to read up on much. There are just so many options.

[deboardfam]

My loco quit responding today.. it still lights up. It still wont read on the zephyr but it wasnt doing that before. I am not sure whats wrong. GRRR

[gc53dfgc]

Sounds like you may need to send the engine back for repairs.

As for switches I would like all of mine to be powered but money does not allow right now so only the main and essential ones like the yard and inside ones are powered. If it can be reached then it is manual.

[deboardfam]

Is there a way to do a reset on the atlas engines? Any ideas? I was just running it this morning. Going to read through the zephyr manual. When I kick it on the brake light flashes.

Gotta start pricing some manual switches. Almost all of mine will be within reach. The only problem I have on reach is near the mountain. My table is stable enough to climb on.. and I think if I had a ladder I would be okay.


Now will have to find me a small B&O switcher for the coal area. Love this. My dad has worked on coal docks his entire life.
Big thing in our area with the Ohio river and the power plant running on coal.

[deboardfam]

What kind of switches will I need? # wise for the above layout?
I plan on using atlas switches probably as they will go good with the flext track.

[waltr]

My loco quit responding today.. it still lights up. It still wont read on the zephyr but it wasnt doing that before. I am not sure whats wrong. GRRR

Can you turn the lights on/off?
Did you set the decoder to a non-default address? If so then try the default address of 03. The decoder could have reset, particularly if the track got momentarily shorted.

Also, on the Zephyr with track power on, be sure the throttle setting is zero, and the direction selected to Brake, select a different Loco address (any) then select the address for your Loco.
I've have a non-response if the throttle is not set to zero when selecting a Loco with my Zephyr and was sure it was a decoder problem.

[deboardfam]

When i kick it in reverse the lights dont swtich to the backend lights like they did. Honestly I dont know how to turn the lights on/off. I will try switching to a different address and back. It could have definately been a short as I was moving all of my track today to the table.

[NIMT]

To reset, program CV 8 to 008
I think your running yourself in circles!
You need to read the decoder programing manual!
There is a whole section on trouble shooting both your Zephyr and your decoders.
I think you have a configuration problem with the Zephyr!
Have you ever been able to get the decoder to take a programing entry, like changing the decoder number?

[deboardfam]

Thanks waltr! Switching out and back fixed it. Ran it around a few times now. LOL

NIMT.. I have read it. Have never been able to get the decoder to take.
I have read others have the same issue with the atlas. At this time I am not too concerned as I still have to do my whole layout and only have one engine. I am still just gathering information and pieces of stuff and learning. Thanks for the info. Will read through the manual again and more in depth when I get the chance. Work and kids keep my time pretty occupied.

[NIMT]

It's possible that the decoder is locked. Do you know what decoder is in the engine?

[deboardfam]

No doesnt say on any of the paperwork. Just picked this up to have a basic loco to start with at the LHS. Is an Atlas EMD GP-35. Dcc pc board part number is 470299.

[xrunner]

It's possible that the decoder is locked. Do you know what decoder is in the engine?

The new Atlas I just sent back had an NCE decoder in it -

http://www.ncedcc.com/

[deboardfam]

What problems where you having out of it?

[xrunner]

What problems where you having out of it?

It did the herky-jerky down the track or simply didn't move at all. If you touched the wheels it would run a little ways. Other days it didn't show any problems. It also had a buzzing noise some days above a certain speed. Weird but I have better things to do with my time than futz with new equipment that should work, so off it went.

It said on the box it had an NCE decoder in it, on the side of the box.

[deboardfam]

Mine says preinstalled Atlas decoder.

[xrunner]

Mine says preinstalled Atlas decoder.

Yea, but Atlas doesn't make or sell decoders - we had this conversation in another thread. I'll bet yours is from NCE. But ... I was also told on the forum that these decoders should all be NMRA compatible, so what difference does it make who made it? :dunno:

[gc53dfgc]

There are very few differences on decoders for pre installed engines and are almost always identical in properties. However when you go to after market DCC decoders things chagne a little bit. There are more variations like number of light or function outputs and the max amps they can handle. There are also different CV options which allow for different light effects and this varys from maker but is generally the same type of effect when programmed. Sound even furthers the differences but mostly the differences are in sound quality which Tsunami and QSI have and are at the top of the sound quality and offer the best. I personally prefer Digitrax for the normal DCC and QSI and Tsunami for the sound jobs but am planning on finding a smaller decoder for the normal DCC which NCE might fill.

[NIMT]

If it's an NCE decoder.
CV 15 Decoder programing lock "key" This Cv is always programmable even when "locked".
CV 16 Decoder programing lock ID. When CV15=CV16, programming is unlocked and the decoder will respond to programming commands. If CV15 is not equal CV16 then decoder programming will not program (except CV15) or read!

[deboardfam]

Thanks NIMT.. I will have to look into it once I get my programming track built. Debating on where I am going to put it.

[xrunner]

Here's another dumb question:

If he bought a new engine, and the decoder manufacturer it came with isn't specified for the customer (so they can go to the decoder manufacturer's website), then should it not come with a list of CV's that are applicable to the decoder installed? Why do they send out new equipment without appropriate documentation? :confused:

[deboardfam]

The only paperwork in it was a warranty sheet.. and a parts list for ordering replacement parts.

[deboardfam]

Could I go ahead and be putting down the road bed if I decide to not go with foam? Or should I wait til I have all of my switches and put down road bed and track at the same time? Just kind of at a stand still until I get my switches and just want to get something accomplished. Ever have that feeling? :confused:

[waltr]

Yep but I'd wait until you have all the track parts then fit them together and run your train. This will find any problems in the layout design and it is much easier to fit if nothing is glued down.

[deboardfam]

Good idea.. plus I think I may go with foam so I can carve it for some height differences and carve a steam/pond out of it.