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Old 09-22-2010, 01:50 PM   #1
jeffnohio
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need help upgrading dc motor on old mantua mikado

hi guys just joined up.. and about 2 weeks ago started getting into ho trains and old marx wind up o scales.. anyway ,,

I just bought a mint in box old style mantua mikado steamer.. it has the open brush motor and direct drive worm gear right to the drive gear.. I have ran it on my track for maybe 1 or 2 hours so far.. The problem Im having is it will not run at lower speeds.. and when I put my 12 cars behind it it has a problem running even at full speed and slowes it way down..

Im using a bachmann transformer and have bachmann ez track in a large approx 4x8 oval.. my little bachmann 0-6-0 will run it just fine at slow speeds .. but there is no weight to it to pull that many cars and slips.. Is there a new motor I can put in this old Mikado to make her run better.. right now I want to stay with dc seeing that my budget wont allow dcc as of yet.. Thanks a bunch for any help .. Im pretty new and figured some one on here would know how to fix this or at least point me in the right direction.
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Old 09-22-2010, 06:41 PM   #2
tkruger
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I have several of the Mantua 0-60 and 0-4-0 older steamers. They all use the same drive line. Your main issue is not the motor. Those old motors draw allot of amps. The basic Bachmann power supply cannot supply what is needed. An MRC Tech power pack (any one) will be a vast improvement. As for slow speed control the new power pack will also improve that. One with a nudge option will allow the older loco to start at a slower speed without the need to back it off. Look on EBay. The MRC Tech II goes for around $30 used.
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Old 09-22-2010, 08:03 PM   #3
tjcruiser
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I have a Tech II power supply on my little HO layout. Bought it used, but it works great. Very good speed control, especially over the low-speed range.

Cheers,

TJ
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Old 09-23-2010, 02:20 AM   #4
jeffnohio
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awesome! thank you for the info .. that is what it seemed like to me needed more juice.. .. I just thought all the transformers put out the same voltage.. that will give me another reason to put up some more track and have 2 trains going at once..

From what little info I have found so far about these old trains this has been the most helpful.. I had seen a retro fit kit motor on ebay for like $20 bucks .. but the motor looked the same.. im not sure how old this little sucker is but it was part of the 1860 general red box and had a piece of real wood as a spacer in the box between the cab and tender. I really like this engine, it's heavy die cast and just feels like a good quality train.. I can't wait for it to run like one too..

Thanks again and Im sure I will have a ton more questions. and hope sometime I can give someone some help out as well

Jeff
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Old 09-23-2010, 03:08 AM   #5
jeffnohio
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Just bought a mrc tech II 1500 on ebay for 4.99.. hope this is the right one. it has a momentum switch.. is that the nudge?
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Old 09-23-2010, 10:20 AM   #6
tjcruiser
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I have a different Tech model, but yes, I think that "momentum" setting will offer you good low speed powering control. They use something called "pulse" powering to help with speed control.

TJ
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Old 09-23-2010, 06:32 PM   #7
flyboy2610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnohio View Post
awesome! thank you for the info .. that is what it seemed like to me needed more juice.. .. I just thought all the transformers put out the same voltage
They do. But voltage and amps are not the same thing.
From: http://www.youngco.com/young2.asp?ID=4&Type=3
Ampere - The unit expressing the rate of flow of an electric current. One ampere is the current produced by a difference in potential of one volt across a resistance of one ohm; An electric current flowing at the rate of one coulomb per second.

Volt - A unit of electromotive force. The electrical potential needed to produce one ampere of current with a resistance of one ohm.

In simple terms, what it means is that voltage is the 'pressure' of an electrical current, while amps is the 'volume' of electrical current. While power packs put out the same electrical force, they do not all produce the same volume. Your older motors simply needed more volume of current that the standard power pack was supplying.
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Old 09-24-2010, 02:35 AM   #8
jeffnohio
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That makes more sense now.. thanks a bunch for taking the time too explain it..

also here is the retro fit kit .. but Im not sure if this would even work on my model.. seeing that mine doesnt have a gear box on the chassis..

I have another question about this Mikado... The way the boiler shell mounts to the chassis, There is a long screw right in the smoke stack.. (plus 2 under the cab). I have a drop in Seuthe smoke generator.. any ideas on how to go about trying to make this work on this train?

I have a drill press and taps if I should have to relocate the front mounting screw.. Just not sure if I want to totally ruin this thing buy changing it that much .. but I really like the smoke look on these old steamers... And Im all for customizing but Im not sure seeing that this is pretty old and in great condition.

Any tips, ideas or insight would be greatly appreciated

Jeff

Last edited by jeffnohio; 09-24-2010 at 02:52 AM.
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Old 09-24-2010, 10:39 AM   #9
tjcruiser
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FlyBoy ... nice simplified description of volts/amps/current/power. Well said.

TJ
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Old 09-24-2010, 06:11 PM   #10
tkruger
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Originally Posted by jeffnohio View Post

I have another question about this Mikado... The way the boiler shell mounts to the chassis, There is a long screw right in the smoke stack.. (plus 2 under the cab). I have a drop in Seuthe smoke generator.. any ideas on how to go about trying to make this work on this train?

I have a drill press and taps if I should have to relocate the front mounting screw.. Just not sure if I want to totally ruin this thing buy changing it that much .. but I really like the smoke look on these old steamers... And Im all for customizing but Im not sure seeing that this is pretty old and in great condition.

Any tips, ideas or insight would be greatly appreciated

Jeff
Be carful if you choose to modify the frame. Some of them used a metal that is poured and not that strong. Stressing it to much can cause it to crack. Especially at that age. I have found that the smoke generators often do not work as well as one amy think in HO. The sped that is needed to make them put out enough smoke is to fast for realistic operation. Slightly to much oil an it spews all over. Also as you said the front connection of the frame and the boiler is threw the funnel.
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