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Lionel TMCC, Legacy, & Conventional Power & Control

27K views 47 replies 8 participants last post by  hunt4cleanair 
#1 ·
Hello,

I am new to the hobby and want to set up a O-scale multi-engine layout using Lionel FasTrack and the new Legacy Controller. I have purchased a set that comes with the conventional CW-80 transformer but have not yet purchased the Legacy controller. I have also already purchased a higher-end engine cira 2006 with TMCC features.

I understand that the Legacy controller will operate the TMCC engines. Is this correct? Do I need any other TMCC equipment for my TMCC engine? When adding the Legacy controller system, I need to attach a power supply such as the CW-80 to it, correct?

Any insight into how conventional, TMCC, and Legacy work together on the same layouts would be most helpful. Thanks in advance for your help! :confused:
 
#3 ·
TMCC & Legacy



I wish that I had seen this post sooner, I am using TMCC on my S gauge layout. I have just obtained a Legacy system to use in conjunction with the TMCC and they work together fine. The Legacy will operate TMCC engines along with Legacy equipment.
I have a number of post war Gilbert Flyer engines to which I have added TMCC control, and a number of conventional engines that I will not add it to. Here is what I see as a large advantage for TMCC or Legacy, you can run any engine with your wireless remote and not have to modify it. All you need if you have TMCC is to add Powermasters, if you have Legacy you will also need a Powermaster Bridge. As stated in the previous post the Lionel site has much info on both systems and they have Techs that will answer questions emailed to them, it may take a few days to get the answer but they are forth coming.
If you still have questions on this you can contact me and I would be happy to try to help you out.
Ray
 
#5 ·
John,
Depending on what the motor situation is in the engines you have now the decoders, less sound, will cost between $50.00 and$75.00. They are not difficult to install. If you go to ERR website and click on there manuals it is all laid out there. I am in S gauge so I know in your O gauge equipment you will have much more room than I have for the boards. I have installed ERRs' driver and sound boards with the speaker in engines as small as the AF Baldwin.
Ray
 
#9 ·
Yes it is the decoder and the driver board for the motors. It is also the decoder for the sound if you want to add that option. I was at the same place you are now about three years back, I knew nothing about all this except that I wanted the wireless control and the ability to control two or more engines on the same piece of rail independently.
Ray
 
#10 ·
Well, I'm there now. ;) I do have a small advantage, I'm an EE and a computer guy, so the concepts are familiar, just not the equipment. :D

Just trying to figure out what it'll take to upgrade to digital. Obviously, I have to have the infrastructure for TMCC in place first.

Do you control all your switches and accessories that way as well?

Also, is there a computer interface option to do some automated routing and the like?
 
#11 · (Edited)
No, I don't do any of the switches or accessories with my remote, I actually am still am doing the construction of the layout. I do have the track laid and am able to run trains The main thing I wanted was the train control, I have the buttons for my switches and uncouplers around the layout near the accessory that they activate. One guy in our club who is not tech savvy, said he was afraid to try this stuff. He did go ahead and install three Powermasters on his layout so he could run his trains from the wireless without modifying his engines. He guts it and went ahead with the SW2s, switch controllers, he called me yesterday to tell me he has half of his switches on the remote and will finish the rest of them today. He also wanted to know when I would order more driver boards, I guess he is losing his fear of TMCC.
With the Legacy you can set a number of routes without a computer interface. You might also want to visit the Lionel web sight to get more info on the Legacy

Ray
 
#13 ·
Thanks for asking all the questions, John! I've been wondering the same things myself. I don't think I'm ready to make the TMCC move yet . . . but I know myself and at some point in the next 6 months I'll get there.

Thanks for all the input Rayins! That helps one heck of a lot.
 
#15 ·
Hi again,
One of the things I did not mention in my post was the need of the Lionel SW2 for the switches, you probably gathered that at the Lionel website but I did not want to leave that out. Also to get into this as low cost as possible you will have to do some hunting but you may be able to locate a TMCC Base Command set. The list price for the Command set in TMCC is about $170.00 but they are getting scarce, Legacy costs about $350.00 for the Base Command set. Both of these Base Command sets will have the Base Commander and one of the remotes.
Ray
 
#17 ·
Well, I took the plunge and I'm looking at a new Legacy controller! Now I have all the parts, but I'm at bit lost as to how to configure them. The Legacy manual is pretty sparse on how to get the CAB2 to recognize the TMCC engines. I'm assuming I have to put the engine in Program mode, but what do I do next? :)

My legacy engine is sans manual, so maybe that's the missing link?
 
#18 ·
Good luck, John! I'm looking forward to learning a lot as you sweat your way through it. ;-)

BTW: Where did you pick up the Legacy controller?
 
#19 ·
I found it on-line for $269, the cheapest price I could find anywhere. That was at www.legacystation.com

The interesting part was they also had it listed in a different place for $309, but when I did a search using Google, it found the page with the cheaper price. Since they shipped it at that price, I guess it was valid! :D
 
#21 ·
Clearly, I bought the system with the command base and the CAB2 controller. :) I'm dense, but not that bad yet. :D

It appears that all I have to do with the TMCC engines is put them in program mode and then program them to the correct ID#, right?

I'm confused about using the Powermasters with the Legacy, it appears I might need the Powermaster bridge as well. I have conventional engines that I was going to run on different track segments. Is the Powermaster bridge required as well?
 
#24 ·
No apology necessary, for this particular topic, I'm a little dense, just not that dense. :D I was trying to buy the old CAB1 and base on eBay, but they kept going for $170-180 used with no warranty. That's when I started thinking about the Legacy and just moving up for the new one. Of course, that's before I realized that I'd need more stuff to link it all together. :D

Looking forward to getting all of this running, but none of my TMCC engines like the O27 platform. My new layout will be straight O31, but I have to paint the basement first before I can start building that. :(

I'm going to setup a temporary track just to work the bugs out of all this stuff... :)



I ordered the PowerMaster Bridge, I finally found a description of why I needed it. Apparently, the CAB1 is a 27mhz device, and the CAB2 is a 2.4ghz device. The bridge just converts them so they can talk to the Powermasters on 27mhz.
 
#26 ·
Yep, I think I have most of the pieces, just sorting out the issues.

One thing that I've read more than once, people complaining on a derailment killing their TMCC and/or sound. Have you experienced this? Is it advisable to have a better circuit breaker than is found on an older ZW or KW transformer?

The non-electronic stuff is bulletproof, so I've not had those worries before. :D
 
#27 ·
I have had quite a few derailments and have not had a problem like that but I am running two rail American Flyer. The chassis on my engines are isolated from track power so that may have something to do with it. All of my tracks also have Powermasters and they are protected with an internal circuit breaker and an in line fuse. The only time I fried a board was on one of my conversions, I purchased a can motor conversion kit for my Baldwin and the motor was defective and locked up. The board went up in smoke, after that I added two amp mini automotive fuses in the circuit of that engine as a precaution. It was also the last can motor conversion I will do. Most of my trains are post war AF and Digital Dynamics makes a four amp ac board which I will use from now on.
Both DD and ERR have ac and dc boards rated at up to eight amps. I'll stick with my open frame motors in the older engines and use the dc boards in engines that I convert that come from the factory with the can motors in them.
Ray
 
#28 ·
Once I get things running, I'm planning on converting a couple of the conventional engines to TMCC using the stuff from The Electric Railroad Company. I may or may not go for the add-on RailSounds boards, they're pretty pricey.

I'd like to find add-on electrocouplers for the engines I convert as well, that seems to be a bit of a challenge. :)
 
#36 ·
Dug out my TMCC engine and slapped together a little oval of track to test, got the Legacy controlling the locomotive. Still having issues figuring out the operation of the controller, and I discovered that one of my engine's lights was out. :) More to come for sure, but at least the rig works.
 
#37 ·
BTW, found the electrocouplers for the engine on eBay, and discovered that my GP-9 powered unit didn't have electrocouplers either, and I scored a package of two sets for $16, not too bad! I found the full kit for the unpowered unit with the board and couplers for $30, also pretty good. As soon as they come in, I'm all set to upgrade both units.
 
#39 ·
Apparently, it's just figuring out how to convince the train to change directions and things like that. :D I've only tried one locomotive on it so far, and it may be an issue with that engine. It's light doesn't work, and it also doesn't seem to function at all in conventional mode, which is not right. However, once I programmed it's ID into the controller, it woke up. It's almost like it gets stuck in some odd mode, or maybe I'm just putting it there. I had it functioning normally later, and I'm not sure what I did. The Railsounds are neat, and I have an electrocoupler update coming for it so I can disconnect it from the controller. I'll try a different TMCC engine on it tomorrow, got to pick up my grandson soon... :)

I'm sure once I have used it a while it'll become second nature. I am glad I went for the Legacy, it seems like a nicer controller than the original CAB1 TMCC rig. Of course, I don't have any Legacy locomotives, so I can't use some of those features, but maybe someday when the credit card cools back down. :eek::laugh:
 
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