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Old 01-09-2017, 11:34 PM   #1
irontodd
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Caboose industries ground throws

They don't fit in between the tracks! I bought a handful of them trying to keep costs down in my yard and mainline crossovers for now and i am having trouble getting them in place. Model # 206s for n scale. I cut off the second pin and the throwbar that holds the second pin, as well as the throwbar on the opposite side with the hole in it. Trimmed a tie on the neighboring track and still dont have enough room. The tracks are separated only by the width that isbcreated by 2 opposing Atlas #6 turnouts. Really, just frustrated and need to vent. Probably will get some electrically activated undermount switch machines for this purpose, and move the manual throws to the areas where i have more real estate. I had planned to do the whole layout in ground throws for now to save some $$$, but atbleast i didnt buy enough to take care of the entire track plan at once.

mtf build thread http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=102266
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Old 01-10-2017, 01:40 AM   #2
tr1
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Arrow ground throws sometimes come in handy?

the caboose hobby ground throws came to my rescue, at the opening of my yard connected to a series of turnouts to the entrance to my small yard. It's in the center of my train table- layout with in arms reach next to my control panel for my 5'x9' train table layout. Thats why I used the ground throws..... because they are within arms reach forever for now?
This is in the "N" scale section,It should have been put in the "ho" section. My mistake.(sorry)
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Old 01-10-2017, 01:52 AM   #3
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can't u use the groundthrows on the outboard side instead of between the 2 mainlines?

i know i've done it on ho. sometimes have to use a piece of stiff wire from throw to point tie.
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Old 01-10-2017, 12:52 PM   #4
irontodd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cole226 View Post
can't u use the groundthrows on the outboard side instead of between the 2 mainlines?

i know i've done it on ho. sometimes have to use a piece of stiff wire from throw to point tie.
looking back at my build thread/track plan, I see a couple other opportunities I like a little better (not much but a little). I suppose it's a possibility to do what Cole suggested, just more work than I was hoping to do right now. the stiff wire idea, wouldn't I have to burrow through the cork roadbed and lay a piece of tubing to keep the wire taut going that kind of length? that means I have to rip up my mainline. not an option I'd be willing to take right now. I just finished tuning my mains so it's baby butt smooth, no clickety-clacking. don't want to do that again at this stage of the game

if you look at my track plan on the first post of my build thread, you can see my yard ladder parallels my double-track main. the track plan isn't 100% up to date but the critical pieces here, including the spacing/orientation between the ladder and the main hasn't changed from this rendition. Although mains and ladder are already glued down, I could see if I can get more separation between the ladder and the westbound main. I could possibly place the throws between the ladder and main and then outboard of the main on the eastbound side. This option would prevent me from having to pull up the mains, but rather pull up all the ladder turnouts. However I've used a more water-soluble adhesive for the turnouts, whereas the mains I glued down with waterproof stuff. Taking the turnouts up might be easier at this point (turnout replacement is the exact reason I went with standard white glue under the T/Os).
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Old 01-10-2017, 04:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irontodd View Post
looking back at my build thread/track plan, I see a couple other opportunities I like a little better (not much but a little). I suppose it's a possibility to do what Cole suggested, just more work than I was hoping to do right now. the stiff wire idea, wouldn't I have to burrow through the cork roadbed and lay a piece of tubing to keep the wire taut going that kind of length? that means I have to rip up my mainline. not an option I'd be willing to take right now. I just finished tuning my mains so it's baby butt smooth, no clickety-clacking. don't want to do that again at this stage of the game

if you look at my track plan on the first post of my build thread, you can see my yard ladder parallels my double-track main. the track plan isn't 100% up to date but the critical pieces here, including the spacing/orientation between the ladder and the main hasn't changed from this rendition. Although mains and ladder are already glued down, I could see if I can get more separation between the ladder and the westbound main. I could possibly place the throws between the ladder and main and then outboard of the main on the eastbound side. This option would prevent me from having to pull up the mains, but rather pull up all the ladder turnouts. However I've used a more water-soluble adhesive for the turnouts, whereas the mains I glued down with waterproof stuff. Taking the turnouts up might be easier at this point (turnout replacement is the exact reason I went with standard white glue under the T/Os).
irontodd;

There are several things I can think off. First if you want to use the "stiff (music) wire in a tube" method: it may be possible, without tearing up any track. I use greased music wire inside brass tubing, and it works very well. My tubes are under the layout, not on top. However if you prefer mounting them on top, you can drill (horizontally) right through the cork roadbed without taking up track. The end of the tube itself can be made into a crude form of miniature "hole saw" by using a small, modeler's triangular file to cut spaces between the "teeth" of the saw. If this apparatus can be run off past the table edge, you can connect the tube into an electric drill. Brass tube is available in three foot lengths from Amazon.com. That should be enough to reach. It's also possible to bend brass tube into a gentle curve, slip a sharpened, spear-pointed, length of music wire down the tube and let the wire do the drilling. Slow speed, and light forward pressure should be used; and the drilling end of the tube needs to be held down below the ties, so as not to damage the track.
Much simpler way. If you want to forget the ground throws altogether, and avoid the expense of tortoise, or other electric machines, this method is about as simple and cheap as it gets.
Bend a short length of thin music wire into a bracket shape like this ] You will need a tiny hole in the center of the turnout's throwbar, and another hole about 1/2" away in the center of a tie. One end of the wire "bracket" you just created goes into each hole. The trick is to get the bracket's points very slightly longer than the distance between the holes. This takes plenty of trial and error, but with patience, you'll get just the right length. The bracket then becomes a bi-stable spring. It wont like the center position, but will be happy at either end of its travel. This duplicates the action of the spring built into Peco brand turnouts. A simple flick of your finger will snap the throwbar either left or right and the spring will hold the point against the stock rail.

regards;

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Old 01-10-2017, 09:36 PM   #6
irontodd
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Tractionfan you are certainly a helpful gentleman. I tried my hand at the peco syle spring and it seems to work! I used a track nail to drill the hole in the throwbar and tie, and a staple for the spring!

mtf build thread http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=102266
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:06 PM   #7
irontodd
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Ok, first one was beginners luck. A single attempt at a bend and dropped it in place and it just worked. The last 30 minutes has been fiddling with the second and so far to no avail.

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Old 01-11-2017, 09:14 AM   #8
DonR
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Don't know if it was mentioned, but with
Peco turnouts you can simply use your fingers
to flip the points and the spring will lock the
points in place. One big modular layout that
is shown in most N. Florida train shows uses
that feature. They have no remotes or ground
throws.

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Old 01-11-2017, 02:53 PM   #9
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Hey irontodd. I also considered the Caboose throws for my N Scale layout but finally decided against them due to prototypical reasons - I read from various sources that they just looked too big for N Scale and were a real eyesore. Some care about that, some don't - I was one who did care. Luckily I did care, because now reading about your plight with fitting them between the tracks I know I would have had the same problems as you in many cases.

I deferred to the music wire-in-brass tube method as well. It was the best DIY solution I could come up with to keep costs down. Here's a picture for reference:


By bending the wire to put the spring action at the DPDT switch, it allows more forgiveness on bending the wire to get it right vs. having to make the proper spring bend at the track.

What I did was build extended wood panels out from the table and flush with the top, and drilled the holes / squares for the DPDT switches in those extended panels.

If you can't get a drill bit down low enough to get through the cork, you can use an exacto knife to cut out a section between the sleepers and then tweezers to remove the cut piece. That way you won't need to rip up any existing track.

For turnouts more in the middle of the table or on elevated ground, I built "local" mini versions of this system right into the foam next to the throw bar using paper clips instead:
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:06 PM   #10
irontodd
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I ended up borking the throwbar on a turnout trying to drill thru it, and also breaking a factor soldered connection, so I decided I didn't want to risk damaging more turnouts in the same manner. I peeled back my yard ladder, spaced it over a tad and laid it back down. Doesnt look all that bad, though i lost about an inch on each yard track in doing so. My tolerances for stock in the yard werent that tight so i should be ok



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