Layout wiring help? - Model Train Forum - the complete model train resource
Model Train Forum - the complete model train resource

Go Back   Model Train Forum - the complete model train resource > Model Train Workshop > DCC Forum (Digital Command Control)
Forgotten your password?


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-07-2019, 01:38 PM   #1
MarkA
Hobo
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 5
Scales Modeled: N Scale
Layout wiring help?

I have attached my layout.
The red and black indicates where my power feeder joiners are on the layout.
The outside loop and the inside loop are working fine.
The position of track shown in red is not?
When I make the switch to enter or exit the portion of track shown in red the DCC shorts out.
Is it possible to make all of the track live?
Is my wiring correct?
Is the portion in red a reverse loop?
I am using insulfrog Peco Code 80 switches.
NCE Power Cab DCC.
Please help.

Thanks,
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 7 Bridges N Scale Layout v2.jpg (1.07 MB, 12 views)

Last edited by MarkA; 11-07-2019 at 07:35 PM..
MarkA is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-07-2019, 03:29 PM   #2
Chip
Engineer
 
Chip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lansing Michigan
Posts: 973
Clean the track and make sure the connecttions are good. I crimp the fishplates onto both rails at every join and have no issues with power delivery to all rails.

Good Luck
Chip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2019, 03:30 PM   #3
Chip
Engineer
 
Chip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lansing Michigan
Posts: 973
/looks like a fun running set up I see no reverse loop. connection is most likely the gremlin
Chip is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 11-07-2019, 03:34 PM   #4
mesenteria
Dispatcher
 
mesenteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Comox, BC
Posts: 1,455
The Electrofrog turnouts route power differently from the Insulfrog variety. If you only turn one of the points to diverge into that inner track, but not the other turnout's points at the same time, you will get a short.

Go to the DCCWiki site and study how the two types of turnout differ.

One way to avoid the conflict is to gap the rails at both ends, say using the ends of the frog rails as a guide, and power that inner length separately with it's own pair of feeders. That way, if one of the turnouts is not lined to match the one your using on one end, the gap at the other end won't have you in conflict. You might still need a DPDT to switch the phase on that inner gapped length though...not sure until I ponder it a bit more.
mesenteria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2019, 07:32 PM   #5
MarkA
Hobo
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 5
Scales Modeled: N Scale
Thank you for the reply. I must apologize. I am using insulfrog switches not electrofrog.
MarkA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2019, 10:14 PM   #6
traction fan
Station Master
 
traction fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,108
Scales Modeled: N
West Current routing turnouts

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkA View Post
Thank you for the reply. I must apologize. I am using insulfrog switches not electrofrog.
MarkA;

The red area on your track diagram is not a reverse loop, so don't worry about that. Peco Insulfrog turnouts are what's called a "Current routing" turnout. This means that as well as being a track switch, they are also set up to be electrical switches. Track power, if coming from the points end of the turnout, will only be passed on into the red area when the turnout is set for the red portion of the track. If the turnout is set for the other(non-red) track, the red track will not get power. Since you have an insulfrog turnout at each end of the red track, I would think that if either of those two turnouts were set for the red track, that would put power onto the red track,. If both were set for the red track, no harm would be done.
Looking again at your diagram, I see that you already have feeders to both the tracks coming out of each turnout, except one. Do you also have insulated rail joiners on both short frog rails of every turnout? If not, you should add them.
The one turnout that does not have feeders on both routes is the one at the top center of your diagram. One route does have feeders, but the other one would only get power through the turnout at the top , and a bit to the right. It would have to be set one way for power to get through to one of the routes of that top center turnout. I suggest adding one more pair of feeders to the track between those two turnouts.

You asked if all track be powered? Yes it can. Some people do not want the current routing feature. They bypass it by putting insulated rail joiners in both of the short pieces of rail coming out of the frog. Then they wire power feeders to the tracks beyond the frog as well as at the points end. in other words, power is fed into all three pieces of track coming out of the turnout. These feeders don't need to be attached directly to the turnout, just somewhere down each of the three tracks that lead to the turnout. If you do this to every insulfrog turnout, all the track on your layout will have constant power.
Do you have a multimeter? It's a very handy tool to have in these situations. It can tell you if the rails of the red track have power, or exactly where the power is not getting through to that track. It can also determine if you have a short circuit. The meter doesn't need to be a fancy, expensive one. Harbor freight tools www.harborfreight.com sells basic meters from $5-$10 that are quite adequate for model railroad use. The photo below shows the $10 meter, I also have the $5 one, but don't have a photo of it available.

good luck;

Traction Fan

Multi meter.JPG
__________________
To Puget sound, Electrified!
traction fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2019, 08:23 AM   #7
Lemonhawk
Dispatcher
 
Lemonhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Posts: 1,760
Scales Modeled: HO
Check the feeder to the red outlined track, you probably have the red and black reversed.
Lemonhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2019, 11:18 AM   #8
MarkA
Hobo
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 5
Scales Modeled: N Scale
Thank you

Thanks for all the guidence. I will keep you posted when I am able to isolate my issure and fix it.

Sincerely,

Mark
MarkA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2019, 02:28 PM   #9
Loconut
Hobo
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Near Idyllwild, CA
Posts: 9
Scales Modeled: N and HO
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkA View Post
I have attached my layout.
The red and black indicates where my power feeder joiners are on the layout.
The outside loop and the inside loop are working fine.
The position of track shown in red is not?
When I make the switch to enter or exit the portion of track shown in red the DCC shorts out.
Is it possible to make all of the track live?
Is my wiring correct?
Is the portion in red a reverse loop?
I am using insulfrog Peco Code 80 switches.
NCE Power Cab DCC.
Please help.

Thanks,
Reverse loops are hard to spot but I also use peco insulfrog and i think the inner section is a reverse loop. I have used powershield automatic reversers with great success. If it shorts out that is usually the culprit. Buy the powershield and it is easy hookup and you will be in the clear.
Loconut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2019, 04:46 PM   #10
mesenteria
Dispatcher
 
mesenteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Comox, BC
Posts: 1,455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loconut View Post
Reverse loops are hard to spot but I also use peco insulfrog and i think the inner section is a reverse loop. ...
It isn't. The reason is that the turn-around end of that inner track, at right, parallels the same type of orientation as the two outer tracks. All three turn back 180 degrees, so unless one of the many feeders is crossed incorrectly, they orientation of phase/polarity stays the same between the two end turnouts.

Parallel means no conflict.

Had that inner loop folded back and rejoined the same turnout that it had entered, THAT would make it a reversing loop.
mesenteria is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


» Visit These Sites:
LGB World

Or Our European Train Website ModelRailForum




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.