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I'm just about to give up!

12K views 79 replies 23 participants last post by  Magic 
#1 ·
It's a long story so sorry for the long post.
If you don't want to hear a tail of woe, stop right here.

The DCC gods have not smiled on me lately.

Started with my 6 Athearn Genesis GP9 sound locos, problem is intermittent power pickup.
The cause might be loose wires but I'm not so sure.
These locos are all from the same time frame, about 5 years ago, and seem to all have the same problem.
What happens is they will lose power on turnouts and sometimes on turns but not all that often.
A GP9 8 wheel pickup should not do this ever.

After I bought these I read something on Tony's Train Exchange about a problem with the drive axle lengths causing intermittent power
The fix was to replace the wheels with some from Northwest Short Lines.
Well one by one they all keep getting worse and now all 6 are dead, won't run worth a darn.
I too POed about this to even look at them much less repair them.
What makes me think that the wheels are the problem is if I lift one set of drivers off the track the other will power the sound
until I wiggle the loco and than it looses power, wiggle it more and power comes back.

I did take the shell off of one and found all the wiring is black, no color coding at all and
I can't see any way to take the bottom cover off the trucks to remove them to get at the wiring on that end.

The way I feel about them right now is if I try to fix them they will on doubt see the business end of an 8 pound hammer.
I have a fairly long fuse but when it hits the dynamite out comes the 8 pounder.
It's happened before. The more expensive the item the longer the fuse and with these it's getting close.

So unless I can find someone to repair them they are dead and gathering dust on the bad order track.
I might just give them away to anyone here that wants them, I want them running or out of the house.

If anyone is interested what I'll do is send you all 6 locos and if I can get two back in good running order you can keep the other 4
and I'll pay shipping both ways and a good amount for your labor and parts.
It's over $1,200.00 worth of junk as it is so I'm willing to pay a fair price to get something running.
I'm not looking for something for nothing but someone to fix the darn things.

I have the right wheels to repair one loco.
The wiring will need to be hard wired as well, this is the part I don't think I can do,
my soldering skills on small wires is non existent. I'll screw it up for sure.
It's 2 Southern Pacific in bloody noise and 4 Black Widows.


But wait there is more.

About three weeks ago one of my Bachmann F7Bs fried the decoder.
Haven't sent it in to Bachmann yet but maybe I will soon if I don't give up on this whole thing first.
So it's on the BO track with the 6 GP9s.

Still more.

Just after the F7 died my Bachmann GE 70 ton switcher died as well. It's on the BO track with 6 Athearn and 1 Bachmann.

More yet.

Went to hook up my little used Digitrax 402D radio throttle, Yep dead as well.
Can't do anything with it as far as running locos is concerned.
Won't fit on the BO track so it's on the work bench.
This is the one and only problem I've had with my Digitrax system.

I'm not done yet.

I needed to have something for yard switching and short line work,
that's what the now dead GP9 were for, so I ordered an Atlas Gold RS11 with Loc sound decoder from Yankee Dabbler.
From what I've heard a good dealer.

It arrived today. Fast shipping, good price and well packaged, I was happy.
Looked everything over very carefully and all was good, brand new in box as stated.

After a quick read of the manual I put it on the tracks and it sounded great and ran good as well. FOR ABOUT 150 FEET.
It died on the third lap.
The start up sequence is just fine, lights work but as soon as you put it into run 1 it dies. Nothing, no lights, no sounds and no runs.
Three decoder resets had no affect. DEAD.
I bought this off E Bay but I'm going to call Yankee Dabbler tomorrow and see what is up. Don't want to deal with E Bay unless I have to.

I do not believe that this is in anyway Yankee Dabbler's fault, I just want to check in with them to see how to proceed with this.
It might be as simple as a loose wire but I don't want to open it up and void the warranty.

I have no idea why I'm loosing decoders, I've checked the track etc. and can see no problems at all.
I have an even 14.8 volts around the entire layout, I've checked every inch with a RRamp meter.
0.04 amps with no trains running. That's what it takes to run the meter.

My track work is good enough that I'm not getting any derails or things like that to cause shorts so I don't think that is the problem.

I'm really getting discouraged and don't know if I'll continue or not.
I closed the door to the train barn and don't know if I'll open it again except to tear down the layout. I'm that discussed, at least I am tonight.

There's even more.
Just to put frosting on the cake the DCC in my washing machine is acting up and didn't want to wash cloths this morning.



Magic
 
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#62 ·
Well it's been some time since I updated this thread, so here goes.

Haven't done anything with the Athearn GP9s.
Might try a couple of Keep Alives later to see what happens.

I got the 402D throttle back from Digitrax and it works just fine.

The Bachmann F7 also are running fine, two down and two to go.

Today I got the RS11 back from Atlas, they said that they could not find nothing wrong with it :dunno:
I ran it today and everything seems fine when on the main lines and I ran it through every turnout in the south yard,
no problems at all even though the track was a little dusty.

BUT it wouldn't run worth a darn on the west yard main line and the industries on the north table.
Stalled on all the turnouts and even on the straight tracks.

I have done a lot of scenery work there so dirty track may be the issue.
Cleaned the track and tested several times and no go.
All the turnouts there are Peco #6 code 83 and are powered from both ends.
Why am I having problems there and nowhere else? :dunno:

I messed with this all afternoon and no progress, won't run at low speeds.
The Atlas RS11 was about to become a shelf queen or garden mulch. :mad:
Just for grins I decided to turn off the sound, presto thing ran like a champ.
Crawled through turnouts at a snails pace perfectly.
So it seems like there is some connection with how the sound works, it's a Loc Sound decoder.
One other clue was one time it stop on a well powered section of flex track, just stopped dead.
I left track power on and went to have a cup of coffee, when I returned there it was idling just fine and ran as before.
Tried this a few times with the same result. :dunno::dunno:
Didn't touch a thing just let it sit there.
My Bachmann F7A runs just fine on this section of track so it seems it has something to do with the Atlas.

The way Atlas set this loco up was that on power on the loco had to go through all the start up sounds before it would move.
I'm thinking that this is where the problem lies and programing this feature out will fix the problem.
Don't like this anyway so no big deal.

The hockey game came on so all train work stopped.

As far as the loco goes, not to bad and will make a good yard switcher. Low speed control is excellent.
It's set up more for road operation so some extensive reprogramming is in order for switching operations.

Not a lot of detail but good enough for me.
Good sound but the idle sounds are not that great.
Got to make some changes there.
Overall not to bad for the money if I can get the stalling straightened out.

Will try some programming tomorrow.
Might add a feeder between the turnouts as well.

Magic
 
#63 ·
Well some good news. The RS11 runs just fine. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Taking out the start up sounds before it would move did the trick. :smilie_daumenpos:
No more stalling anywhere.
It would still hesitate on turnouts but not stall.

When I talked to Atlas they said they cleaned the wheels.
Don't know how they did it but it wasn't very good.
Gave the wheels a good cleaning and she runs smooth as silk. :smilie_daumenpos: :smilie_daumenpos:
She'll crawl through turnouts at very low speeds.
Seems that this old gal will need clean track and wheels.

A little reprogramming of deceleration CV4 and it's all set for yard switching.
I now have a good heavy yard switcher and short line hauler.

Found a much simpler way to fix the sounds, take out the hearing aids, sounds great. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
40 years of car racing, guns and heavy equipment took a toll on my hearing.
It's paying off now. :smilie_daumenpos: :smilie_daumenpos:

A lot of time and some major frustration but I've got 3 out of 4 done.
The Geeps can wait.
For right now it's back to scenery work.

Magic
 
#67 ·
Thanks guys, It's good to get all this behind me.
I looked forward to getting the RS11 back and when it had issues
I was a little unhappy to say the least but when
I muted the sound and things ran fine I knew the problem was with
the no move till the start up sounds finished thingie.

Got it all working so on to scenery, should have something to post in a few days.

Magic
 
#68 ·
I had a fling with DCC 15 years ago, mostly so I could run multiple trains on one line. It was FUN. When it worked, then as problems of reliability mounted up it became a new level of nightmare with very little in the way of where to start (beyond simple dirt). DCC is a delightful concept, but the DCC threads are typically crammed with this sort of complaint. “Throw physic to the dogs, I’ll none of it.”
(MacBeth).
 
#74 ·
My experience with DCC is that people expect it to work miracles, overcoming poorly performing locos, poorly laid track, and maintenance issues (dirty track, especially). Also, for some reason, people don't seem to want to troubleshoot methodically with DCC as they would with DC. And perhaps it's also that people try DCC in conjunction with "upgraded" track plans, and so it's really the additional electrical complexity that's at fault, not DCC. I guess maybe it's fair to say that DCC is less forgiving than DC, but it's not more difficult, nor are there any inherent reliability issues.

At any rate, near as I can tell, Magic's layout has been running trouble free for about 3 years now, so it's definitely possible to work through it.
 
#71 ·
When I got back into the little trains a couple of years ago (after 40 years of "being away from it"), I chose dcc over DC.

It was THE BEST decision I ever made, model train wise.
Choosing the right dcc control equipment was the "next best" decision.
(I went with the Roco z21 wifi control system, running on an Android tablet)

There have been some frustrations in getting a few locomotives to run to my satisfaction, but I've gotten much better at that, too.
 
#72 ·
That's only a matter of programming, which shouldn't be included with problems encountered with DCC. How a locomotive operates out of the box is up to the decoder and locomotive manufacturer. It is up to the individual to customize how they want it to run.

And there is the learning curve. Most of these parameters, or CV's, require experimentation. Changing one setting and expecting perfect results as you want them is unrealistic given the amount of variables involved. Not to mention that changing one CV can have an effect on other operating parameters.

This is not directed at you or your post. It's just an additional observation from delving into this CV programming. I generally don't do it. About the only things I change are CV's 3&4 and the volume CV's either for individual sounds or global sound.
 
#73 ·
For any type of electrical system to work smoothly there must be very
good electrical conductivity. For a model train, that means there must
be even distribution of power to all parts of the layout. This applies
whether DCC or DC. The joiners connecting
tracks must be tight and clean. The rails must be kept free
of grease and grime. And just as important, the loco must have
multi-wheel power pickup and those wheels must be kept clean. If these
factors are observed you will have a smooth running DCC or DC layout.

The DCC systems of today are quality built and offer trouble free
train operations. It is a rarity to find a defective DCC system.

I had a room size DCC HO layout with more than 20 Peco
turnouts and 10 DCC locos. I never had a problem that
could be blamed on the system.

Don
 
#75 ·
Well the layout has indeed been running trouble free for the 3 years since this thread was active.
Never really was a DCC System problem but some issues with locos.
I've gotten all the issues worked out and things have been running great since.
I'm running a Digitrax Zephyr Extra DCS51 setup and love it.
Whatever problems I had with the Zephyr were operator error not system problems.

Magic
 
#78 ·
I came across you other post first so some info there.
The trains have been running great but not so much me.
Great to see you again and check in with us once in a while will ya!!!!!!!
It don't cost nothin' to post some of your expertise so others can learn.

PS when you get done with your trees I'll send you some stuff to build mine. :eek::D

Magic
 
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