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Old 08-05-2010, 06:22 PM   #1
Brooklyn758
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Question Mar Switch anti-derailment wiring??

I'm a newbie . But a quick learning Mc Gyver type one.
i making a layout. No pictures Atm. I understand the "Special Isolated outside rail track". And made 2 correctly and removedpins on both sides of third track . They are right before the switch and i want to use them to trigger the switch . So i wont have derailment. However the train does not trigger them . I have old vintage MAR lines switches . I totally cleaned the and lubicated them and work at 14 volts and less . I have them on a zw transformer on a separate dedicate rail . they both connect to a remote controller and the transformer powers that controller.
they work fine. Except for the derailment safety measure i took. but the anti-derailment modification i did works . But only when i trigger it myself . with a piece of metal. I contact the center rail and the isolated 3rd rail i made. and it works fine.
why does the train not trigger it?? I tried holding the train while power to it .and still no trigger. I s the train using the voltage and the voltage is not high enough to power the train and trigger the switch at that moment?the switch is not isolated from the main track or power . Only the 3rd rail on the track i made before the switch has no contact with the switch or main track .
everything is lionel,o-27 track,except the Mar line switches and controller that came with them . (red,black,green wires) . Also the connection on the controller . has 2 leads to connect to transformer . 1 lead has brack plastic marker underneath. is the the ground (U)lead or does that go to the (B) connection? I believe I had it to the ground.not sure . but they were working fine when i press buttons. but they cannot be triggered by train .I also tried using the track connection to trigger them also . i thought made the rail gave to much resistance and lowed the voltage that was not the case. it works when i make connection with a nail .
what am i doing wrong.
If pictures are needed i can furbish them .
1 more hting the connection i made to isolated track is good and gives .02 resistance ,better then most track sections.LOL however i never measured voltage at time of contact .
Do i also have to isolate ground rail on that section?there is a OTC connection not to far away . In which the distance of the OTC to transformer is less then the distance of isolated tract > switch>controller>transformer. maybe that could be the reason.Current chooses the shortest path to a ground I think. maybe it does not go thru isolated rail because it would be the longer path back to transformer.
I have no electrical backround and taught my self . However this AC thing is a little confusing. I learn that there is always continuity in AC where as DC that would be detrimental . At first i thought everything was shorted. until i realized that is AC.LOL I repaired and restored about 6 different engines ,e-units,horn relay,i ever re wired the coil on a horn from a 2023. I drilled the rivet and hot glued it back. did the same to the coil on the Milk car. Also to some coils on the couplers that were broken. i'm a McGyver . I have pisture on my Facebook (chris zambrotta). for some who want to see repair details.
Thank you kindly ,
any response please keep it simple ,i dont understand schematic or technical terms to well. maybe a 4-8 year old diagram will be fine.LOL
Chris
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Old 08-06-2010, 07:16 AM   #2
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Chris, after reading the first paragraph. The trigger has to connect to both side rails to work, not from the center to the isolated rail.

Does that does help?
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Old 08-06-2010, 07:47 AM   #3
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C'mon, T-Man! The poor guy spent the time to type in a novella---you give him the solution in 25 words or less? Can't you at least make it SOUND like a complicated answer?



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Old 08-06-2010, 12:15 PM   #4
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the 3rd rail i isolated from the ground and center rail . I soldered a wire to that isolated rail and connect it to the switch on the green terminal .
When i mentioned center rail. I meant that if i make contact with a nail accross center rail and my isolated rail which is connected to the switch for the anti derailment . It works fine. But when a train passes it does not .
I just made contact with a nail to see if it was working . to test it . when train go over that section.its suppose to route the current thru that isolated rail to trigger switch. but does not . But when i make contact with nail or piece metal it triggers.
forget about that isolated rail scenario. I also tried using that connection from lionel . and still dont work
.I have it wired right .Im almost positive.
http://www.facebook.com/BROOKLYN758#...&id=1561494053
I took some pictures so you can see the wiring there the last photos in the album. maybe this will help you understand.
I know the trigger for the switch is NOT connected to center rail or ground rail . it is suppose to work off the 3rd unused rail that is not connected to transformer.
even when i use that lionel connection it does not switch the switch either.
I thank you though for responding. I must have explained it wrong.
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Old 08-06-2010, 12:38 PM   #5
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Question


the wire running underneath is the other wire from the other section isolated track going to green terminal on switch for anti-derailment when train comes from that way.
both dont trigger switch .but if i jump center rail to isolated rail with a nail they work. but with train they dont .Am i suppose to isolate the ground rail on those sections of track where i made a isolated rail from the layout?
its not like crossing lights . where they only require few volts to light up.
these Mar line switches needs 12-16 volts to work. If engine is using 12-14 volts maybe there is not enough to throw the switch. remember these switches has to be connected on a separate terminal on the transformer . they have their own power. Can there be a Phase issue ? why it wont trigger when train is running?
Also on the controller for the switches . what terminal goes to the ground(u) and which goes to the hot(b) terminal on transformer? Maybe there is some polarity or inverted phase or something . I do not know much about this. I noticed that the MAr line Mainstreet lightposts are wired different then the lionel lights.
please tell me what more info or pics u need
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Old 08-06-2010, 12:38 PM   #6
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Old 08-06-2010, 03:55 PM   #7
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brooklyn,

Your pics aren't showing here on my end. I think (???) there's some forum mandate that says you have to have 10 posts before you can post photos ??? (B&M, is that the case?)

TJ
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Old 08-06-2010, 03:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjcruiser View Post
brooklyn,

Your pics aren't showing here on my end. I think (???) there's some forum mandate that says you have to have 10 posts before you can post photos ??? (B&M, is that the case?)

TJ
Um, sort of... But his photos are not showing because he is linking them from his Facebook account...

Brooklyn, please see this guide to posting pictures here: https://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=2595
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Old 08-06-2010, 06:27 PM   #9
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Thanks for the directions and help . i apologize for my ignorance with the forum formats and protocols. Im also a Forum Newbie
Thank you kindly
chris
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Old 08-06-2010, 06:33 PM   #10
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I also tried wiring the switch with that connection and still the train does no toggle the switch. But if use a jumper from the center to that connector it toggles the switch immediately. Im still thinking that a voltage drop occurs with the train. Not enough volts goes to the switch. or it is a shorter path to the common rail to the CTC to transformer . Then it is from isolated rail to switch to controller to transformer.
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