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Old 12-21-2018, 02:33 PM   #1
Millstonemike
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Need Help Identifying Electronics Upgrade

I bought these used Williams Southern Pacific Daylight A-B-A F-7s from the bay. From what I can tell these are Pre-Backman from the 1980s. The motors do not have flywheels nor are there traction tires (I doubt I'll need them as both A units are dual powered for 16 drive wheels). It appears that the previous owner tried to add a modern train control system - TMCC? I should note that the A unit chassis does have a cutout for a missing slide switch. That cutout was from the factory, not an aftermarket hack.

On the track, the pictured A unit does not move nor does the light come on. I did install a new battery, no change. If I attach the B-unit with the tethers, I do get Diesel sounds (quite loud) even without the battery in the A unit.

So what do I have? How can I get it to run? Will it run in conventional mode?

Any help would be appreciated before I rip the guts out and install my own electronics.

Also, would these F-7s be the right size for the Williams Crown Addition 15/16" Aluminum body passenger cars?

IMG_0236.JPG

IMG_0237.JPG
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Old 12-21-2018, 03:46 PM   #2
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Thats either QSI or MTH PS1. They appear very similar. It would be conventional. They need a good 9v nicad battery to tell if they will work or not.
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Old 12-21-2018, 04:04 PM   #3
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Thats either QSI or MTH PS1. They appear very similar. It would be conventional. They need a good 9v nicad battery to tell if they will work or not.
I put in a fresh, never used, 9 v Energizer. That's a little higher voltage than a nicad.
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Old 12-21-2018, 04:23 PM   #4
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If you put it on the track and powered it up heard nothing, good chance the board is dead. Someone may be able to fix it but not sure its worth it.

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Old 12-21-2018, 05:49 PM   #5
Millstonemike
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If you put it on the track and powered it up heard nothing, good chance the board is dead. Someone may be able to fix it but not sure its worth it.

Pete
With or without battery in the A unit and the B unit attached via tethers, I get the diesel sound. Just no motor movement from the powered A unit. Of course the headlight didn't come on either as it is directly connected to the motor power feed.
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Old 12-25-2018, 12:27 PM   #6
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Well I solved this problem. These Williams F7s are pre-Backman ere and the added electronics are MTH PS1. Using an MTH operating manual I was able to get the engines running using my 1033 transformer (they were locked in neutral).

As I mentioned before, both A units are dual powered. That gives me 16 driving wheels. They should have no problem pulling the 5 Williams Aluminum Crown Edition 16" passenger cars (or 6 or 7 as I add matching cars).

Now the hard part: understanding and working all the settings for horn, bell, brake squeal, etc.

And the easy part: acquiring a larger transformer - ZW I think.
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Old 12-25-2018, 12:30 PM   #7
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That's a very early PS/1 if it's MTH, as the three-board stack was only used for a year or so. I'd have pegged it as the QSI board, very similar in operation to PS/1.
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Old 12-25-2018, 01:05 PM   #8
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That's a very early PS/1 if it's MTH, as the three-board stack was only used for a year or so. I'd have pegged it as the QSI board, very similar in operation to PS/1.
You would know better than I. So it may be the QSI system put in the Crown Edition engines?

I was not able to find any operation manual for the QSI system. It was the instructions in MTH Rail King Amtrak Genesis manual that enabled me to operate the engine. The only thing I noticed that was different was the lack of a volume pot. But I haven't done anything more than unlock neutral to enable the F-N-R-N operation. And I have the diesel sounds at startup.

I believe you have a super capacitor solution for the battery. What's your take on the 9 V Li-Ion batteries with built-in protection (under voltage, over voltage, etc.). About the only thing that protection doesn't control is charge current - I may need to take detailed measurements of the charge circuit. to ascertain the viability of Li-Ion (charge current, actual working voltages).
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Old 12-25-2018, 02:43 PM   #9
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Yes, QSI is the package that Williams used for those, they wouldn't have had the MTH electronics. I've attached the QSI module operating instructions. You can see all the options available.

I personally would not recommend Li-Ion batteries, but they may work. I'd stick with NiMh, more than sufficient and it'll last for years.

This is the volume pot on your boards.

volume pot.png

QSI QS-1 Train Control Manual.pdf
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Old 12-25-2018, 02:56 PM   #10
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Yes, QSI is the package that Williams used for those, they wouldn't have had the MTH electronics. I've attached the QSI module operating instructions. You can see all the options available.

I personally would not recommend Li-Ion batteries, but they may work. I'd stick with NiMh, more than sufficient and it'll last for years.

This is the volume pot on your boards.

Attachment 477692

Attachment 477694
Many thanks. After a quick scan of the QSI manual, it would seem that the MTH Rail King system is a derivative of the QSI system.
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