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Repainting a tinplate locomotive

15K views 98 replies 7 participants last post by  Millstonemike 
#1 · (Edited)
Recently dug out my father’s old Ives tinplate set, and as you will see from the photographs, the loco was repainted an ugly gold at some point. I have always wanted to repaint this back to original colors, but have never had enough time, info (or talent) to do it. Here are a few questions:

1/ where to find good pictures of this loco in its original scheme?

2/ how to remove old paint, and prime for a new coat?

3/ what brand of paint would be good for this? Enamels? Acrylics?

4/ can I get away with spray cans for this type of job? I’m not great at airbrushing, and hand painting would look awful, I think.

Any help appreciated. I’m attaching pix of the loco and the other cars in case that helps dictate what colors the loco should have.
 

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#2 · (Edited)
It appears to be the 3252 loco, but not 100% sure, until I get back home from vacation. If it is the 3252 loco, it shows up on the Ives Train website, in the color Green. I can get more specific when I get access to my books. As far as stripping the Gold paint, I have great success with Castrol Super Clean, which is a degreaser, in a 1 gal. “purple” jug. I typically use a spackling trough, and set the body in full strength Super Clean. Use an old toothbrush, to scrub into the crevices. Just use rubber gloves, as the Super Clean will dry your skin out. Otherwise, it is safe to use.
 
#3 ·
It appears to be the 3252 loco, but not 100% sure, until I get back home from vacation. If it is the 3252 loco, it shows up on the Ives Train website, in the color Green. I can get more specific when I get access to my books. As far as stripping the Gold paint, I have great success with Castrol Super Clean, which is a degreaser, in a 1 gal. “purple” jug. I typically use a sparkling trough, and set the body in full strength Super Clean. Use an old toothbrush, to scrub into the crevices. Just use rubber gloves, as the Super Clean will dry your skin out. Otherwise, it is safe to use.
Thanks for the info. I will look for the Ives Train website, and get to work on the paint removal. Any info on where to obtain a correct green - and even decals when needed - would be appreciated as well.
 
#5 ·
Thanks again. I think I have a 3252 Series 1, but I like the red/maroon color scheme better than the green, so I may go for that. Also, a guy on eBay sells custom decals for this loco.

I’ll post pictures of the finished locomotive. From a search on the net, it seems that a lot of folks restore their Ives trains, so I am in good company!
 
#6 ·
In my experience, the paint comes off pretty easily.

You can definitely use rattle cans. Your finish will look much nicer if you bake it. I use a large cardboard box and a 100w bulb as my "oven". Set it in there between coats to dry. Follow the instructions on the can for dry times. It should come out super glossy. Good luck.
 
#7 ·
If it were me, I would:

Have it sand blasted (prepares the metal for excellent adhesion w/o primer and a smooth paint finish - fixes little nicks, etc.). And I'd do the chassis as well.

Rattlecan will work well. For glossy finish, practice before repainting the loco.

Google 3252 images. I see both green and red. I'd match the cars.

Search eBay and you'll find water slide decals with gold lettering to finish the restoration. "Ives Railway", "3252", etc.

Your missing the grab rails that wrap around the front and back of the loco. I don't have a part # or source for that part. You may be able to fashion them from some stainless steel rod. See this LINK.
 
#10 ·
If it were me, I would:

Have it sand blasted (prepares the metal for excellent adhesion w/o primer and a smooth paint finish - fixes little nicks, etc.). And I'd do the chassis as well.

Rattlecan will work well. For glossy finish, practice before repainting the loco.

Google 3252 images. I see both green and red. I'd match the cars.

Search eBay and you'll find water slide decals with gold lettering to finish the restoration. "Ives Railway", "3252", etc.

Your missing the grab rails that wrap around the front and back of the loco. I don't have a part # or source for that part. You may be able to fashion them from some stainless steel rod.
I think sand blasting might be a bit out of my comfort zone. Would sanding the metal before painting accomplish the same thing?

And I did eventually notice that all the handrails are missing. I also don’t know if I’m good enough to fashion new ones, so I was thinking of filling the holes with Bondo or something and attempting to smooth them out, at least. I will post updates as I go along on this project. And I thank you for the excellent input.
 
#8 ·
I completely disassemble the loco.
Next I glass bead sandblast all of the parts that I want to repaint.
I use Krylon spray Lacquer. I spray the underside or inside of all the parts first. BTW, I do not use a primer. Do not let the parts dry. Immediately place the parts into a toaster over at 160 degrees for 30 minutes. Let those parts cool until you can handle them. I try not to touch them with bare hands. I then spray the parts that show. Then into the oven for 30 minutes at 160 Degrees.
Once cool, I add all of the decals. Then I will spray the parts that show with either a Semi, or Gloss clear lacquer. This protects the decals. Do not bake at this point.
I add a label inside that states it's restored.

Dan
 

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#11 ·
I completely disassemble the loco.
Next I glass bead sandblast all of the parts that I want to repaint.
I use Krylon spray Lacquer. I spray the underside or inside of all the parts first. BTW, I do not use a primer. Do not let the parts dry. Immediately place the parts into a toaster over at 160 degrees for 30 minutes. Let those parts cool until you can handle them. I try not to touch them with bare hands. I then spray the parts that show. Then into the oven for 30 minutes at 160 Degrees.
Once cool, I add all of the decals. Then I will spray the parts that show with either a Semi, or Gloss clear lacquer. This protects the decals. Do not bake at this point.
I add a label inside that states it's restored.
Wow - Your restorations are museum-quality masterworks! No way I am going to achieve that level of skill and artistry. But I am going to attempt the oven drying, which is a concept I never thought of, and might really help the finish. Thanks for your input - your toy trains are amazing!
 
#12 ·
You received excellent advice on refinishing you loco. Considering the passenger cars are Red, the obvious choice is a Red loco. The 3252 was made 1917-1925, and two colors listed were Dark Red, & Red, along with 4 other colors. You can use rattle can spray paint, and decide which brand you prefer. My personal preference is Krylon, as opposed to Rustoleum. The Krylon comes in a few different shades of Red. I suggest trying it on something like a metal can, to compare the color to the passenger cars, for a close match. You also need to get .062 Brass handrail, from the major suppliers of parts, along with cotter pin “handrail” stanchions. Depending on your method of stripping the paint, make sure to wipe the body down with isopropyl alcohol before painting, to remove any oils from handling. It should turn out well.
 
#16 ·
Yes, the more I get into this project, the more I think I owe it to the memory of my father to do what I can to bring it back to life. I might even try to fashion handrails from wire, although keeping wire straight around those end curves will be tricky. I will post progress pix when I tackle the thing.

I will definitely go with some sort of dark red for the loco color.
 
#13 ·
Thank you for the very kind comments. I really love the Marx trains. I also make all my own decals from scratch with Photostacker pro a graphics program I purchased 20 years ago. I don't think it exists anymore.

Either method will work for drying the pain. The Bulb with the Cardboard box, or the toaster oven. The only advantage to the toaster over I can see, is the finish will be extremely smooth. The heat actually helps the paint to flow to an even finish. I never get blotchy or spotty finish.

Dan
 
#17 ·
Thank you for the very kind comments. I really love the Marx trains. I also make all my own decals from scratch with Photostacker pro a graphics program I purchased 20 years ago. I don't think it exists anymore.

Either method will work for drying the pain. The Bulb with the Cardboard box, or the toaster oven. The only advantage to the toaster over I can see, is the finish will be extremely smooth. The heat actually helps the paint to flow to an even finish. I never get blotchy or spotty finish.
Your restored toy trains are absolutely amazing. The era of Tinplate Trains was a wonderful moment in time, and my father used to wax nostalgic about his Lionel and Ives trains sets. Marx was also a terrific brand, as I know from some of the toys I had when I was a small kid. By the time I got into model railroading in the early 1960s, it was HO Scale and primarily metal and plastic trains. But I do appreciate the hardy souls such as yourself who keep that era alive with your skills and artistry. I am a fumblethumbs by comparison, but I’ll do what I can.

And I am intrigued to try the baking of the paint finish, which was a completely new concept to me. I think for my situation, the cardboard box with the light bulb will be the easiest to arrange.
 
#24 ·
The handrails would probably be better in nickel, versus brass. It Your existing bell, and most likely the strap headlight are nickel. As far as bending the handrail, you could use a piece of scrap wood, and put nails in correct spacing, for bending the radius. By using a wood base, with nails, you are keeping the handrail flat, against the board. Hope you can visualize the procedure.

To get the idea, do a search, (on toolbar above), for Back in the Saddle — Lionel 258 Revamp, and scroll to post #19. Here is Photo courtesy of Tjcruiser, on his 258 loco revamp.

Wood Table Metal
 
#29 ·
The handrails would probably be better in nickel, versus brass. It Your existing bell, and most likely the strap headlight are nickel. As far as bending the handrail, you could use a piece of scrap wood, and put nails in correct spacing, for bending the radius. By using a wood base, with nails, you are keeping the handrail flat, against the board. Hope you can visualize the procedure.

To get the idea, do a search, (on toolbar above), for Back in the Saddle — Lionel 258 Revamp, and scroll to post #19. Here is Photo courtesy of Tjcruiser, on his 258 loco revamp.
Yes, the bell and strap look like nickel. I think what I was picturing was getting a roll of craft wire, and having a hell of a time getting the wire to straighten out, before I even got to the corner bending.

So, what I’m looking for is straight nickel stock? What gauge?
 
#31 ·
Lost, The handrail that is used is .062 diameter nickel rods, 12" long, which are available from Jeff Kane, www.ttender.com, plus he can give you the correct cotter pins, for the stanchions, to hold the top horizontal sections in place. Look up his website, and you can call him direct, for any advice. He is great to work with. Also, the price for the nickel handrail is $1.25 each, and to be safe, get four. I suggest making a jig, to get the initial bends, and then you can use pliers/needlenose to make sharper bends, if you desire. It's your choice.
 
#34 ·
Along the lines of Millstonemike’s recent post, the subject of the motor/running gear never came up. The cosmetics have been well answered. Have you checked the running condition of your loco? If any parts are needed, it would be useful to get a list and make one order. We anticipate seeing the finished restoration. Just take your time.
 
#41 ·
The last time I ran this train, which was under the Xmas Tree circa 1990, the thing did run, although a bit on the slow and jerky side. I wasn’t even planning to tackle the motor issues this time around, as I will be happy with a pretty display model. But, if the shell restoration comes out well, it may inspire me to check out the motor.
 
#35 ·
Just seeing this thread, and chiming in with TJ's two cents ...

Fully disassemble, carefully bending tabs open. Remove trim. Separate all pieces.

Strip via Heavy Duty Oven Cleaner ... two baths soaked for an hour or so each in a double-layer of tin-foil lasagna pans. Do outside with fumes. Rinse / dry.

Get several STAINLESS wire brushes for a Dremel ... 530-02, I think. Take your time, but go over every tiny inch/crevace of the stripped steel ... inside and outside of shell pieces. End result should be super-clean virgin steel ... no rusty coloration, no spider-veins of rust. Take your time here. Wipe down with denatured alcohol afterwards.

Prop pieces up individually using bent coat hanger pieces poked into pink insulation foam. Keep pieces 1.5" to 2" off of the foam surface.

Spray with Krylon primer. A couple of light coats. Dry and flip to do both outside and inside. Let dry overnight.

Rub down very very lightly with a fine-grit Scotchbrite pad ... this will just kiss the primer to remove any surface bumps/dust. Wipe down with alcohol. Let dry.

Prop up again on coat hangers ... INSIDE facing up. Spray with topcoat ... I'm very happy with Krylon here. Light coats, 10 minutes apart, outside ... sunny day, but not in direct sunlight. Let dry. Flip to OUTSIDE out. Repeat for topcoat there.

Let dry a day or two. Don't touch, though you will be tempted!

As needed, lightly sand any thick buildup on any tab, as needed, to gently have it fit into its slot. Reassembly, bending (or twisting) tabs into lock position. Recoat bend tabs with a toothpick drop of matching paint.

As needed, reinstall trim on components before full assembly, if that's the logical access sequence.

For trim, I strip with Dremel stainless, polish a bit, and then clearcoat with Airplane Dope. It's super clear and hard, and will not yellow or crack. I've tried other clearcoats (polyurethane, laquer, etc.), but they all crack with time. Dope has done me well.

Enjoy!

TJ
 
#37 ·
TJ, Have to post some of these useful tips every so often. It takes individuals that think outside of the box, with coming up with simple solutions to problems. The likes of T-Man, yourself, and a few others, the solutions are there, with some creative thinking. That’s what make Tinplate Prewar so much fun.:smilie_daumenpos:
 
#38 ·
No one method will work best for everyone. Experiment with different ideas until you feel you are comfortable with any system that works for you. Many ideas here, I plan to try to see if they are quicker, or easier than the methods I currently use.
The oven cleaner or chemical paint remover may work best for those that do not have access to a sandblast booth. I emphasize glass bead sandblast because it is the least invasive medium. The beads are just like they say BEADS, where Sand Blast is different degrees of coarseness of actual sand particles. Glass bead leaves a smooth surface, Sand leaves a rougher surface.
The sandblast cabinet I use was originally built by my Dad. I updated with foot pedal and air valves to make it easier to use.
Google and see if it may be feasible for you to build one. It has many uses. One is removing rust from tools left to the elements.

Dan
 
#42 ·
The motor probably needs a good cleaning, along with some lubrication, with the moving parts. Also clean the commutator, plus new brushes. I am attaching a diagram of an Ives motor, with a manual reversing unit, which your loco has installed. That is the lever that is sticking outside of the frame.

Text Diagram Line art Technical drawing
 
#43 ·
The motor probably needs a good cleaning, along with some lubrication, with the moving parts. Also clean the commutator, plus new brushes. I am attaching a diagram of an Ives motor, with a manual reversing unit, which your loco has installed. That is the lever that is sticking outside of the frame.
Cleaning and lubricating I think I can handle. Replacing brushes sounds a bit difficult. Hopefully the cleaning/lubrication will bring it up to snuff.
 
#44 ·
Depending on the state of the motor ....

Use CRC, Goo Gone or TV tuner cleaner and saturate the loco to remove all old, hardened oil/dirt/grease. You can do this over newspaper while the engine is running. Use a light oil (sewing machine, 3-in-1, etc) and lube the axle bearings and the commutator spindle. Use grease on the gears (many like 5W oil for that).

These motors are fairly simple and replacing the brushes is not hard. If ordering from Jeff, get a pair of brushes.

An important part is the commutator. With the brush plate removed, clean the face with CRC and a Q-tip. Use a toothpick to gently clean between each commutator face. A pencil eraser can be used for hard to remove deposits.

I think this is your motor ...

Auto part Rim Vehicle Wheel Metal
 
#45 · (Edited)
Depending on the state of the motor ....

Use CRC, Goo Gone or TV tuner cleaner and saturate the loco to remove all old, hardened oil/dirt/grease. You can do this over newspaper while the engine is running. Use a light oil (sewing machine, 3-in-1, etc) and lube the axle bearings and the commutator spindle. Use grease on the gears (many like 5W oil for that).

These motors are fairly simple and replacing the brushes is not hard. If ordering from Jeff, get a pair of brushes.

An important part is the commutator. With the brush plate removed, clean the face with CRC and a Q-tip. Use a toothpick to gently clean between each commutator face. A pencil eraser can be used for hard to remove deposits.

I think this is your motor ...
Yes, that looks like it. The gearing works well, but the brushes are shot. Assuming they slide in and out easily, that should not be a problem.
 
#51 ·
When I rebuild a Marx motor, I disassemble it down as far as possible. I then soak all the parts in Carburetor cleaner for 30 minutes MAXIMUM. Every part will come out looking absolutely new. I the use soapy warm water and a brush to clean them. I then rinse them in clean water and use compressed air to blow off the water.
The only part I do not place into the carburetor cleaner is the E Unit coil.

Dan
 

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#52 ·
Nice. So the carb cleaner doesn't affect the armature winding enamel?

I blasted a tin plate chassis and rinsed it in water to remove all the sand. I shook it off and then immediately placed it in a hot oven. Rust started to develop by the time is was dry.

Now I use 91% alcohol in a spray bottle to rinse parts. It's cheap and it's in my local supermarket.
 
#53 ·
No it does not effect the winding's. I also want to make it clear I do not exceed 30 minutes, and I clean them immediately. I let the parts drip in the dunking basket after removing it from the carburetor cleaned. once pretty much stopped dripping I place the basket into a plastic coffee can with warm soapy water. I the rinse the parts in clean water as I brush them off. I immediately blow them off with air, and place them into a small container with paper towels.
I completely disassemble the E-Unit and unsolder the coil. I re-wrap the coil with new tape, and set aside until ready to put it all back together. A helpful hint. If the wire to the coil is broken off at the coil body itself, after you remove the tape you can unwind a bit of the wire to make up for what is broken off, onew wind is usually enough. If it's the center wire next to the core, you can also add a bit of wire at that point and save the coil.
If you look at the third rail pickup it appears to be almost new. What I do is place it bottom side down on a flat block of metal. I the use a Flat faced punch to flatten out the grooves from the back side. I the go back and fill in the back portion with a bit of solder in case at some point it gets worn completely through the copper, it won't have a hole. I then run the third rail pickup across a medium grit sponge centered sanding block. then over scotchbrite to polish. The pickups will look like new. You can see in the photos at the blue arrows where it didn't get completely pounded out. But still makes a big difference in the finished appearance. The entire part will come out of the carburetor cleaner looking like new but all the dings and wear are still present.

Dan
 

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#59 ·
Yes, I did manage to shine her up pretty nice with a combination of steel wool and some Dremel brushing. Already put a mist coat on the shell, and put it in my homemade box oven for a half hour. Not sure if I had the shell in long enough, but I don’t know that it matters too much at this point? I’m going to try for a couple more coats this weekend, and going to try longer “baking” times. Is an hour inside the oven too long? Using a 150 watt bulb. Hopefully I’ll have photos soon.

PS Your cleanup looks terrific!
 
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