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Granite Gorge & Northern

285K views 830 replies 77 participants last post by  Chris from France 
#1 · (Edited)
This will be my first model railroad. I did put an HO oval on a piece of 4x8 once when my children were young that the Christmas tree centered in, but I considered that a toy train. My, how things have changed in the last 30 + years.

When I was a child, my father started but never completed the Central Midland. I wanted the GG&N. He won the discussion. I made up my mind 47 years ago that I would build one someday. That day has come. It is probably too much for a first timer, but this what I want. We will see.

I spent the first 2 months reading all I could while redesigning the original Atlas plan. This includes 22 minimum radius, less than 3% grades, semi-portable, reduced busy look, DCC, and completely automated computer contol.

I am not into operations, so the design is to display and let 'em run. Ultimately, I hope to have 2 trains, running in opposite directions, on each mainline and a local freight interspersing between both mainlines. With the mountain area covering half the mainlines, it should be quite fascinating to watch. With three passing tracks and computer control I think it can be possible.

I started construction 2 months ago. Please look at the pictures and give your experienced opinions. I may have gone too far already to correct any serious problems. The track is not tested and no scenery is done yet. This is my last chance to fix a poor plan.









 
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#616 ·
side mount

The sections are designed to stack on top of each other for transport. This turnout is just out of the tunnel entrance where the track is at its lowest level. If the Tortoise was mounted conventionally, it would hang down below the bottom edge of the framework. I made an aluminum U channel mount to reposition the Tortoise to the side instead of straight down. Tested it out with a 9v battery and it worked very well. It will be hidden when the scenery is done. Another turnout at the other end of the tunnel will be done the same way.:smilie_daumenpos:
 

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#617 ·
With the Tortoise laid on it's side I would suggest something like this to keep dirt etc. out of the works.
I had to take many of mine apart because ballast grains got into the gears.
Wood Technology


Here's what happens.
If your going to move the layout anything in there will end up in the gears.
It's about 150 to 1 so anything will stop them dead.
Green Electronics Technology Electrical network Electronic component


Magic
 
#620 ·
test

I put in some temporary wiring to test the tunnel tracks and hooked up the Zephyr. I used my most finicky locos and rolling stock. The one track has a point facing turnout and my loco doesn't like any irregularities with a point facing turnout. I ran the short train at full speed both forward and reverse and had no issues with the tunnel trackage.:D I can put the tops on and continue with the build as all the tunnel tracks seem OK.
 

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#621 ·
I would suggest that you make a couple of large holes through your bottom plywood trackbed so that you can reach the inner loop of track from below the layout. Stuff goes wrong occasionally and if you get a car or locomotive stuck on the inner loop, you want to be able to retrieve it without major effort.

Mark
 
#622 ·
How wide is your Garage door, Jerry? In a pinch (ie, hail storm) could you push this to one side and get a car in there? (Without taking it apart?)

I need to tape this out on the floor and see. It never hails when I'm home, so I need to make sure my wife can move this aside and get a car inside. (Or add a porte-cochère, and take over the garage!)
 
#623 ·
It's a single garage door that is 2 cars wide. The old layout is 6' wide on rollers without the 2' wide yard attached which would make it 8' wide. I have put the wife's car in many times without moving the main layout when the yard is not attached. The yard is easy to detach or attach.

The new layout will be 4' wide x 16' long with 2 of the sections removed for plenty of room for a car next to it. At the full 8' wide setup, the car will not fit because of 3' on each side used for machine space and general storage.
 
#625 ·
I think in the future I will try something else than this old standard cork roadbed. The center pre-cut position is not what it should be.:(
I've used cork and foam roadbed, and neither is consistent in their cutting of the center...it wobbles from side to side. I figure ballast will cover the variances.
 
#627 ·
The connection between the 4 sections is far enough along now that each can be worked individually. The other 3 sections are stowed in the background. First up is section "A" which will house the command station and distribution electronics. I will pull the electronics off the old layout and wire it tonight so that I can test each section as it is added on.
 

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#631 ·
It took longer than I figured to completely wire section 1. It holds the power supplies, DCS, and distribution wiring for the other sections. The track is wired in a direct home method rather than common rail and is more of a branch pattern rather than a bus following the track. I used 14 GA wire from the DCS to the PM 42 and the distribution harnesses from the PM42 and 18 GA from the BDL to the terminal blocks with 22 GA feeders no longer than 3". The empty upper right corner will hold the PC MB and PS. There are 3 wall warts for the PM42, PR3, and a UR92. A 4 amp PS for the BDLs, SE8Cs, & the PTB100. A 20 amp PS powers the DCS200. The big PSs and DCS are strapped to the boards on the bottom. Amazingly it fired up without any strange smoke or noises.:smilie_daumenpos: I will test it out with a loco for block detection, transponding, short protection, program track function, turnout and crossing detection.
 

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#632 ·
I did the check out today. I had a major disaster. I have not fastened the programming track down and when I set the table up, it was laying upside down across another track. When I fired everything up, I had a short. That short blew the PTB100 board.:goofball: All other functions tested good.:)
 
#634 ·
Where do the blocks stop?

Interesting thread too bad you have to start all over. I have a similar (but far less ambitious!) project in N-scale. I also want full automation so I am wondering how do you deal with switches as far as the Blocks are concerned. Which option is the correct one:

1) The switch is on one of the 3 blocks that connect to it.
2) The switch is on a 4th block detected independently of the 3 incoming blocks.
3) The switch is not part of any block detection.

My guess is that #3 is the right way. #2 would work but would add an unneeded block.
 
#636 ·
Which option is the correct one:

1) The switch is on one of the 3 blocks that connect to it.
2) The switch is on a 4th block detected independently of the 3 incoming blocks.
3) The switch is not part of any block detection.
You should go read the threads on the Train Controller forum on this topic. The recommendation is to not have the turnout as part of any block. This means you need to have insulators on all three junctions of the turnout and of course you need to supply power to the turnout making the wiring more complex. In Train Controller, you can make use of detection on the turnout for locking the turnout so it doesn't change while occupied, but that really only works if all your cars have resistors across their wheels so that they are detectable. Of course having detectors on your turnouts also increases the amount of hardware you need to purchase. If you don't have a detector on your turnout, there are known issues with voltage of the feed power. The detectors cause a voltage drop and if you don't have the same voltage drop on your turnouts, you can have inconsistent detection when a locomotive crosses from the turnout into one of the surrounding blocks. There are ways to fix this by adding some diodes to the power feed to the turnout, but again, this adds complexity.

I wasn't aware of the above recommendations when I originally laid and wired my track. On my layout, I put the turnout in the same block as on the point side of the turnout like Jerry did in his first layout. My thinking was that the turnout was still logically part of that block because the train wouldn't have passed out of that block until it clears the turnout. This has worked out well for me and I haven't had any significant problems with this logic. The one thing that would be wrong would be to put the turnout into either of the 2 blocks leading away from the turnout opposite the points side. The reason this is a problem is that if you have the turnout as part of block B and the turnout is set to route from Block A to Block C, you'll get a temporary occupation signal for Block B which will cause major problems with logic.

Mark
 
#635 ·
I never figured it would be my final layout. When I desired the same layout but being better suited to long rolling stock, the die was cast.
My first layout had the turnout as part of the point side block. It seemed to work just fine. There has been some heated discussion on the TrainController site on this very subject. Any of your 3 choices can be made to work. I chose to do this layout with detection of the turnouts and crossings as separate detection entities but they cannot be "blocks" in TC.
 
#640 ·
While I am putting the road bed down on another section, I got to thinking about the scenery. I am not fond of the plaster and cloth method. Too messy, slow to cure, and heavy. I think I will try aluminum screen and "Bondo". This should be lighter and stronger than plaster. Has anyone out there tried it?
 

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#641 ·
I have not used that method but I have used fiberglass screen with foam using latex rubber molds. I had bought the product at a train show a long time ago. The foam was a 2-part product (not a can) and was supposed to be harder than construction foam. The kit also included a "shell" that was painted inside the rubber mold. This was definitely lightweight and easy to adjust.
 
#643 ·
Jerry,

Happy with your decision to move to the garage? Mine did not get that cold today, even without any heat -- got down to 58*. I was working on an expanded layout plan and my wife thinks I'm crazy for giving up an air conditioned and heated room. I think she's also concerned that Boyle's law applies to "train boards" -- and that she'll completely lose the garage. She might be right. ;) But I'm struggling with fitting what I want into a 12x12 area. Being able to walk around the perimeter is pushing me to give it up and go big in the garage. Just wish I remember how hot it got out there in the summer.
 
#644 · (Edited)
I knew from the get go that I was garage bound. Not enough room in the house. A layout can never be too big! I wish I had a bigger garage. You just have to plan to be able fit a car in there once in awhile. Too cold for me to work on the layout for a couple of days. I can handle heat but not cold. I use a portable A/C unit in the summertime which can keep it tolerable.
 
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