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Old 04-11-2014, 02:15 AM   #11
Magic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonR View Post
Magoc

Let me wave a wand and murmur some abraa cadabra.

What you show in this pic is mentioned in the Peco
instructions. You must nip off the ends of the ties
of both the turnout and the adjoining track Do it so
they all but touch.

I do agree that the joiners don't fit on the Peco rails
as well as you'd like. I used Atlas joiners. It may be
that Peco joiners would do better. But with the Atlas
you have to do a deft plier squeeze to make 'em work.

Don
Ya Don I kind of figured that out but was so much easier to put them in a drawer and get Walthers, problem solved. A deft plier squeeze does not make for a good electrical connection, you're either going to add more feeder drops or solder the joint. Something not necessary with Walthers. I found this out the hard way as someone gave me 10 sticks of flex track that had the same size issue as Peco, a deft squeeze was a hit or miss thing for me and I would never try that again.

Ive got 30+ T.O.s on the layout at $25.00 or so each that's $750.00 (I really wish I hadn't figured that out) in turnouts that don't really work if I had gone with Peco. They are a good looking unit and I'm sure are derail free but I'll never know 'cause I can't get them into the layout Anyway I all done laying track so it's a moot point now.

I do have some derailment issues but it's the same few cars on the same turnouts every time, so I think the problem is the cars not the TO.

The point I was making was there is nothing said about these kind of things.
It would have been nice to know this BEFORE I invested a hundred bucks in them.

@ RUSTY Cuda. What I found with the Walthers is to take a craft saw and cut under the rail and remove the little "spikes" from the tie, a rail joiner will than slip between the two. There is a very small hump there but it doesn't seem to bother anything and you end up with a nice clean joint and no ties you have to glue in the gaps. Unfortunately I discovered this after everything was almost done. Haven't tried this with the Atlas flex track but assume it would work there as well.

Anyway I got all that off my chest and I hope someone benefits form it.
My thanks to everybody that contributed to the discussion.

Magic

Last edited by Magic; 04-11-2014 at 10:30 AM..
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Old 04-11-2014, 05:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic View Post

The point I was making was there is nothing said about these kind of things.
It would have been nice to know this BEFORE I invested a hundred bucks in them.

Magic
I am sure if you had asked first someone would have said something.























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Old 04-12-2014, 02:14 AM   #13
Magic
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Actually I just did ask that question and got speedy and accurate replies.

There are so many on this forum that help whenever they can and I am not knocking anyone, maybe it sounded that way and if it did I'm sorry.
I don't believe for one second that anyone on this forum would misinform anyone it's just that they just never though to mention a possible compatibility issue.
I've done the same thing on many occasions, forgetting the I know a lot about something but the new guy doesn't.
I have picked up so much good information here, I wish I had founded this place two years ago.

The point here is WHY would I ask "Will Peco turnouts match up with Atlas or Walthers track.?
Here is Walthers page on Peco track. Note that there's no mention of compatibility with Walthers track.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...64542518,d.aWc

I did some research on Peco That very page, and no where did I see anything about this.

Someone new or just returning to the hobby after many years would just assume that code 83 track was code 83 track period.
Who would suspect that some manufacturers would build their own version of code 83 and it wouldn't readily interchange with other popular brands.
I most certainly didn't. I assumed that NMRA Standards would be used by ALL manufacturers. A wrong assumption and I am sure I'm not the only one.
And yes I knew that Peco is a British Company.

The main reason I didn't go Peco is I really couldn't figure out what they were talking about in regards to the frog types.
Walthers says "DCC Friendly" that's all I needed.
Seems to me that there is another member of this forum selling 20 or so Pecos for the very same reason.

Well now there is a post that points out this issue. The question has been asked and there are several good answers and options.

Magic
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Old 04-12-2014, 08:02 AM   #14
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OK

I added a tag so the subject might come up for someone doing a search in the future.
If you can think of a more appropriate tag add it.

I figured Walthers flex track might work?
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Old 04-12-2014, 12:26 PM   #15
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Thanks Big ED.

Well DonR is one of many here who's opinions and advice I highly respect, with that in mind I decided to give the Pecos another go.

Burned through a few joiners but was successful in getting acceptable results.

Peco turnou 2t.jpg

I used a small pair of needle nose pliers. Using the fat part near the pivot and a gentle squeeze did the trick.
Took a little practice but not all that hard to do. I was using pliers that were too big before.

I used both Atlas sectional and Walthers flex.

Maybe at the time I was just too hasty in parking the the Pecos.
My thanks to all who contributed here and If I did offend anyone I'm sorry.
Get carried away sometimes.

Rats! now I've got to find a place to use them.

Magic
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Old 04-12-2014, 01:39 PM   #16
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Insulfrog for rookies, electrof
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Old 04-12-2014, 01:44 PM   #17
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Elecrofrog's are dummie proof. I mix match Peco and Atlas no problem.

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Old 04-12-2014, 02:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtytom View Post
Elecrofrog's are dummie proof. I mix match Peco and Atlas no problem.

DT
Dummy proof is what I need.
I'm the dummy that proves it.

Ya it seems that mixing is not as big a problem as I first though.

Magic
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Old 04-13-2014, 04:10 PM   #19
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Magic.

Thank you, a shaky old man needs all the nice thoughts he can get.

So glad you stayed with Peco. You are going to enjoy trouble free
running. Which model did you finally select, Insulfrog or Electrofrog?
Either are equally friendly to DCC or DC. The difference is the
way they interact with the connecting tracks.

Physically, they are similar, the difference being that the Electrofrog
rails must have an insulated joiner to avoid short circuits. The reason
for this is that the frog changes polarity to match the chosen
route. That would be opposite to the current in the track rails
and thus a short. Some prefer to use a regular joiner, and use a
razor saw or Dremel cutting wheel to make a gap in a rail.

The Insulfrog is power routing so if you have a spur or yard track
that does not get power from the other end, it will lose power when
the turnout is set to straight. A drop from the frog rail will solve that
if you want it to have always on power.

I have never used the code 83 turnouts or track. Don't know if the rail matching
is different. There is a slight difference in the Peco code 100 rails
and code 100 Atlas Flex. However, the joiners can be squeezed to make
the match. I have 20 or so code 100 Peco Insulfrog married to Atlas
Code 100 flex track.

Don
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Old 04-14-2014, 12:57 AM   #20
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Don

Actually they are still in the drawer. Thanks to you I now know how to use them, problem is I have no place to put 'em. I'm all done laying track except for the tail end of the yard and have more than enough turnouts for this. Just waiting on a #7 curved turnout and I'm all done. Might put them up for sale here at some point.

They are #6 insulfrog and Peco gives pretty good directions on how to wire them. Work just like Walthers.

I'm quit happy with the Walthers, run trouble free if laid flat and level. I'll have 35 of them by the time I'm done.

By the way I did the dremel thing to two Walters #5 non DCC friendly turnouts.

The only places I had problems is when I messed up. My bench work is 6 modules cantilevered off the wall, as it turned out with my no plan plan several turnouts sat right over poorly joined and mismatched modules. Once I got them level were ok.

I'm consistently backing 20 car sets through a #4 followed by a #2 1/2 Y turnout and the #4 is on a slight up hill grade so the Walthers work pretty darn good as far as I'm concerned.


Just my 2 cents worth but if I had it to do over again I would seriously consider code 100. The only other layout I had was back in the '80s, code 100. I like the looks of 83 but 100 seems much easier to use. Back then I just laid the track and ran trains with no problems and I had no idea of what I was doing, still don't for that matter.

Seems to me that you were the one that solved my shorting problem with the curved turnouts.

Magic

Last edited by Magic; 04-14-2014 at 02:06 AM..
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