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Old 08-20-2019, 09:36 AM   #1
NySwat
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 9
PROJECT : BackYard Transit System

Project: BackYard Transit System


Hello Everyone, I'm starting on a HO Scale Project in my backyard and always wanted to make a working style Subway system. By the way I always love NYCTA Subway system..

THE PLAN


I will be creating a 4 track loop mainline with stations stops for local and express including going underground with in ground camera systems and LED Stripes lights to light up the tunnel as the train pass by, and make stops. Now i also plan to make this Fully Automatic. I plan to build this route as real as Real life train operations! I know this will take time maybe 2 years to complete the entire project and will post updates and videos for everyone to see

Hardware and Software Im using for my Railroad


So i heard of CTI Electronic Model Railroad System based on google.com and orders the starter pack and so far i hooked everything up and added 1 sensor to a demo layout and got it to detect the train on the track... and now up to learning the the Train Control Language for the CTI and seems I have to program everything to work right!

I also have the MRC tech 6 sound controller IM using.

The Questions



1) Have anyone ever use the CTI system and what is your view on the system ?

2) Do anyone have a Railroad system that is Automatic and use something else besides CTI ?

3) Can anyone give me Pointers or ideas how to make this project come to life?

Thank you all in advance for reading and helping me out on this project! I will Post Videos and Pictures in the futures on the progress of the Railroad.
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Old 08-20-2019, 03:26 PM   #2
Shdwdrgn
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I think one of the first things you need to consider is how you are going to reliably run HO scale outside. Obstacles such as leaves, grass, and pets will present considerable problems when using smaller scales. You should also take a note from the large-scale folks are use brass track as it will corrode slower than most other metals (although if you run battery-powered instead of live rail it will resolve this and other problems).

Your sensors will also need to be built to work with the outdoor environment. Not only leaves and such, but how will you deal with rain and keeping the electronics dry?
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Old 08-20-2019, 05:03 PM   #3
Gramps
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Scales Modeled: HO then G back to HO
I ran G scale outdoors for a number of years and it required plenty of work keeping the tracks clean. I would not even attempt to run outdoors with HO.
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Old 08-20-2019, 05:11 PM   #4
gregc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NySwat View Post
2) Do anyone have a Railroad system that is Automatic and use something else besides CTI ?
I'm not familiar with CTI. Bruce Chub developed Computer Model Railroad Interface (C/MRI) in 1985. JLC Enterprises sell products.

in general, such systems control turnouts and signals, and input occupancy detection and turnout position using nodes that communicate with a PC using an RS-422/485 bus. A serial interface is essential to minimizing the wiring and interface to a PC.

A C/MRI node would have some number of input and outputs. It is not designed to drive heavy loads. Separate driver hardware would be used to control switch machines and signals. Block occupancy detectors would provide input, as well as switch machines with built in switches such as Tortoise.

while custom hardware was required in the past for nodes in such systems, Arduinos are more than capable of doing so. I/O can easily be expanded using devices such an the MCP23017.

The NMRA is proposing Layout Command Control using a can bus which I think if over kill for even large layouts. LCC nodes directly communicate with one another.

neither C/MRI or LCC is intended to control locomotives (although LCC includes a loco control protocol).

they can be integrated with DCC interface to control trains using block occupancy detection and signals. When a train enters a relatively short block preceding a stop signal, control SW can slow/stop a train and restart it once the signal clears.

I believe there are more complete systems that can control trains. I don't know what is involved to schedule the running of trains over such systems.

As a software engineer, i've always found it almost as time consuming to learn to use a commercial piece of software as it is to simply develop my own that does exactly what I want, and one thing I want is the ability diagnose what the system is doing.
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Old 08-20-2019, 05:28 PM   #5
NySwat
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Join Date: Aug 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shdwdrgn View Post
I think one of the first things you need to consider is how you are going to reliably run HO scale outside. Obstacles such as leaves, grass, and pets will present considerable problems when using smaller scales. You should also take a note from the large-scale folks are use brass track as it will corrode slower than most other metals (although if you run battery-powered instead of live rail it will resolve this and other problems).

Your sensors will also need to be built to work with the outdoor environment. Not only leaves and such, but how will you deal with rain and keeping the electronics dry?
I will be Designing a Cover that will fit around the tracks and prevent any outside elements to come in contact with the tracks(When not in use).. so when not in use the cover will be in place.. Now i do have a Shed which All the Equipment and Circuit boards will be in. I will only run the system on nice days. Also because the fence i have shades a parts of the backyard from the sun so the trains or track shouldn't have no much contact with the sun... as for the Electric wires i can make it waterproof so it will be good to go. Even if someone steps on the cover it will not press down and crush or damage it will stay put... Just alot of plywood and cutting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gramps View Post
I ran G scale outdoors for a number of years and it required plenty of work keeping the tracks clean. I would not even attempt to run outdoors with HO.
Yea i heard HO scale is really the worst for outdoors but i believe i found a way to protect it! Basiccly when not in used i must cover the entire route .. Plus when it travels to the other side of the backyard its always sunny so i will be making a underground tunnel with underground stations rig with cams to see the underground actions Plus the way i will be building the tunnel will be easy access to flip open the cover for emergency situations also water seal so water wouldn't be able to enter the tunnel .. The both ends of the tunnel will also have a door to, So no Small animals would get in when not in use ... Honestly HO scale have my Subway cars that i like to use thats the only reason why i stick with HO scale also Cost is my price range to make this happen! Just ALOT of extra work like digging, making a strong foundation and directing water Flow.. This is my first project But starting next month i will post some pictures of the tunnel set up and cover i will use
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Old 08-20-2019, 06:24 PM   #6
NySwat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregc View Post
I'm not familiar with CTI. Bruce Chub developed Computer Model Railroad Interface (C/MRI) in 1985. JLC Enterprises sell products.

in general, such systems control turnouts and signals, and input occupancy detection and turnout position using nodes that communicate with a PC using an RS-422/485 bus. A serial interface is essential to minimizing the wiring and interface to a PC.

A C/MRI node would have some number of input and outputs. It is not designed to drive heavy loads. Separate driver hardware would be used to control switch machines and signals. Block occupancy detectors would provide input, as well as switch machines with built in switches such as Tortoise.

while custom hardware was required in the past for nodes in such systems, Arduinos are more than capable of doing so. I/O can easily be expanded using devices such an the MCP23017.

The NMRA is proposing Layout Command Control using a can bus which I think if over kill for even large layouts. LCC nodes directly communicate with one another.

neither C/MRI or LCC is intended to control locomotives (although LCC includes a loco control protocol).

they can be integrated with DCC interface to control trains using block occupancy detection and signals. When a train enters a relatively short block preceding a stop signal, control SW can slow/stop a train and restart it once the signal clears.

I believe there are more complete systems that can control trains. I don't know what is involved to schedule the running of trains over such systems.

As a software engineer, i've always found it almost as time consuming to learn to use a commercial piece of software as it is to simply develop my own that does exactly what I want, and one thing I want is the ability diagnose what the system is doing.
Cool i will look into it Cause right now i know since I'm a beginner with knowing how to build a house lol i will end up wasting money lol time to time! just Hope Its not a Entire layout that i waste money on so far im 400 bucks in the hobby Thank you for the insight i will start doing some homework on the system
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Old 08-20-2019, 06:33 PM   #7
gregc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NySwat View Post
Hello Everyone, I'm starting on a HO Scale Project in my backyard and always wanted to make a working style Subway system. By the way I always love NYCTA Subway system..
you may be interested in the the Lion's layout - the largest subway in N Dakota.
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Old 08-20-2019, 07:07 PM   #8
prrfan
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Knoxville, TN
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Scales Modeled: HO
NYSwat: Good luck with your outdoor HO layout. It’s a very ambitious plan. There have been HO layouts done outdoors before but none that model subways, as far as I know.
Stainless steel track is sometimes used in G scale garden layouts but I don’t think it’s available in HO.
I’m not sure how HO track will behave with temperature changes that far exceed the range we usually encounter indoors.
You will be in uncharted territory in a lot of this so keep us posted. Looking forward to seeing what you discover.
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Old 08-20-2019, 08:14 PM   #9
Dennis461
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Looks like your are in New York, USA, make sure you have a tiny train mounted snow plow. Start small, see how much trouble it is to build outdoors before spending too much money

And, make sure you show us pictures of progress!
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Old 08-21-2019, 08:33 AM   #10
NySwat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prrfan View Post
NYSwat: Good luck with your outdoor HO layout. It’s a very ambitious plan. There have been HO layouts done outdoors before but none that model subways, as far as I know.
Stainless steel track is sometimes used in G scale garden layouts but I don’t think it’s available in HO.
I’m not sure how HO track will behave with temperature changes that far exceed the range we usually encounter indoors.
You will be in uncharted territory in a lot of this so keep us posted. Looking forward to seeing what you discover.
Copy That and I will keep you all posted on the steps and design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis461 View Post
Looks like your are in New York, USA, make sure you have a tiny train mounted snow plow. Start small, see how much trouble it is to build outdoors before spending too much money

And, make sure you show us pictures of progress!
Yes I'm in new york and i know one day i will have to get it and thank you for the tip. Yea il start making 1 line first and see how it goes and I will take pictures and videos of the project. within the next 2 weeks i will have pictures and a layout in mind and see what everything think

PS: Thank you all for the support in this project
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