Model Train Forum banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have a Lionel dockside switcher for a lot of switching duties for coal loaders, log loaders, drum loader and so on. This requires a lot of switches, the 0-4-0 does not do well crossing over the switches. Goes into neutral sometimes, i assume it`s because of the short wheel base and the short distance between the pickup rollers.
Does anyone else have this problem? A train shop owner said that a 0-6-0 switcher would not do that being longer spaces between the pickups, what are your thoughts on that.
The switches are Lionel # 022 and work perfect for all my other engines.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,401 Posts
Yes, it is because of the short wheelbase not making contact with the rails while crossing the frog.

The problem is not unique to O scale.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Yes, it is because of the short wheelbase not making contact with the rails while crossing the frog.

The problem is not unique to O scale.
Thanks, i need to know if a 0-6-0 switcher would do the same thing before i purchase one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,401 Posts
It would depend upon the wheel base stretching across the frog so that at least two drivers are on each side of the frog, and, that all of the drivers have electrical pickups.

I'm not familiar enough with O scale to advise on this point, but if the frog can be powered with a relay for point switching, that will work too and your 0-4-0 should negotiate the frog without problem.

As I said though, I am not familiar with O scale equipment and turnouts to know if this is possible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,051 Posts
Thanks, i need to know if a 0-6-0 switcher would do the same thing before i purchase one.
If this is the Lionel "Docksider" than has no tender it may or may not have the same problem. Most Lionel steam switchers that have a tender likely would not stall as the most of their tenders have pickup rollers as well as the engines. By making sure both the tender and engine pickup rollers are connected together you would be pretty sure it would never stall.

Pete
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
If this is the Lionel "Docksider" than has no tender it may or may not have the same problem. Most Lionel steam switchers that have a tender likely would not stall as the most of their tenders have pickup rollers as well as the engines. By making sure both the tender and engine pickup rollers are connected together you would be pretty sure it would never stall.

Pete
Yes it would be the dockside switcher, i liked the way the docksider looks doing the switching chores, but i may have to go to the switch engine with a tender...
 

·
Admin
Joined
·
44,055 Posts
Most Lionel steam switchers that have a tender likely would not stall as the most of their tenders have pickup rollers as well as the engines.
Well, yes and no. While Lionel has done some small steamers with an actual tether sharing the power, many small locomotives still have only the IR tether and no power sharing.

I install a single-wire tether between many smaller steam engines & tenders to combat this very problem. I've even had to put the power sharing on larger steam that I do upgrades on if they only have two pickups.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
It would depend upon the wheel base stretching across the frog so that at least two drivers are on each side of the frog, and, that all of the drivers have electrical pickups.

I'm not familiar enough with O scale to advise on this point, but if the frog can be powered with a relay for point switching, that will work too and your 0-4-0 should negotiate the frog without problem.

As I said though, I am not familiar with O scale equipment and turnouts to know if this is possible.
Thanks, that might be worth a try if i can figure out how to do it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Well, yes and no. While Lionel has done some small steamers with an actual tether sharing the power, many small locomotives still have only the IR tether and no power sharing.

I install a single-wire tether between many smaller steam engines & tenders to combat this very problem. I've even had to put the power sharing on larger steam that I do upgrades on if they only have two pickups.
That`s an interesting concept.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,051 Posts
If this is the Lionel "Docksider" than has no tender it may or may not have the same problem. Most Lionel steam switchers that have a tender likely would not stall as the most of their tenders have pickup rollers as well as the engines. By making sure both the tender and engine pickup rollers are connected together you would be pretty sure it would never stall.

Pete
You missed this sentence.

Pete
 

·
Admin
Joined
·
44,055 Posts
I was covering the case where they're not connected. ;)

Truthfully, many of the small semi-scale engines that Lionel made had rollers on both, and for some reason I can't fathom, they didn't normally connect the two together. K-Line is another company that frequently didn't tie them together, even though they had the wires in the tether! Even my new Legacy H10 with the wireless drawbar needed the one-wire tether for 100% operation.

FWIW, I put a PTC in the tether to prevent derailments cooking the wire between the two units.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,051 Posts
Not only are the small engines affected. Both the Lionel NYC Mohawks and Niagaras (TMCC and Vison) will stall on some Ross switches unless the pickup rollers are tied together with a wire. I have had to make a number of them for club members.

Pete
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,019 Posts
Not only are the small engines affected. Both the Lionel NYC Mohawks and Niagaras (TMCC and Vison) will stall on some Ross switches unless the pickup rollers are tied together with a wire. I have had to make a number of them for club members.

Pete
What's your preferred connector between engine & tender for the added power tether?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
I was covering the case where they're not connected. ;)

Truthfully, many of the small semi-scale engines that Lionel made had rollers on both, and for some reason I can't fathom, they didn't normally connect the two together. K-Line is another company that frequently didn't tie them together, even though they had the wires in the tether! Even my new Legacy H10 with the wireless drawbar needed the one-wire tether for 100% operation.

FWIW, I put a PTC in the tether to prevent derailments cooking the wire between the two units.
What kind and size wire do you use, it needs to be flexible, right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,019 Posts
I use these pins used in .1" pitch headers along with their female counterparts. Crimp them on and cover with shrink tubing. Fairly unobtrusive. There are many similar options.

Pete
Am I reading the drawings correctly? When the pin is inserted I'm estimating a rigid connection of 1+"

Interestingly, one draw is in inches, the other in mm.
 

·
Admin
Joined
·
44,055 Posts
I actually use the machine pin sockets and pins, they make a nice compact job.

One-Wire Tether N1.jpg

One-Wire Tether N2.jpg

Not only are the small engines affected. Both the Lionel NYC Mohawks and Niagaras (TMCC and Vison) will stall on some Ross switches unless the pickup rollers are tied together with a wire. I have had to make a number of them for club members.

Pete
Yep, I do the mod on a lot of larger locomotives as well. Many of the 3rd Rail jobs I do get the treatment, I add a roller to the tender.

Another Tender Roller Install N2.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,051 Posts
I just picked out a couple of pics. There are dozens of companies the make similar connectors. No doubt John has other options. I have bags full of these so I use them.
If you ever did an ERR install the female type pin is found at the end of the antenna wire that goes to a pin on the board. They are pretty ubiquitous. If they seem too long you can cut them shorter at the wire end and use solder instead of crimping them.

Pete
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top