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Discussion Starter #1
Some of you may remember this post of my conversion of a DC can motor loco to a gear reduction can motor, slow running speed is just nuts...…..

So, here I am trying a similar thing on Lionel's 4-4-0 Old Timer loco...……

I purchased this thing fairly cheaply, put it on the track right out of the package, and, it did run, but, barely, it ran around the track like a wounded duck, going thumpata bumpata, severely hurting...

On to the bench, quick disassemble and lube, back together, and, viola, decent running little steamer. As usual, runs too fast, will run slowly-ish, but, will tend to stall out if pushed too slow.

In other words, typical Lionel Postwar running, not great, but, not really terrible.

What to do, what to do...…..

Well, I still have a few mini gear motors left over from when I did the conversion noted above, so, lets pull it all apart again and, see if it will fit.....

HHHMMM, looks like it might, but, one problem, is, it's worm gear drive, as seen below, looks like I might have to cut the gear off the original motor, don't really want to do that. When I do conversions, I like to be able to put everything back to original if possible (doesn't always work out that way, but, I do try)…

So, here's what I've got to start with...…..

Lionel-4-4-0-Motor-Conversion-06.jpg



Lionel-4-4-0-Motor-Conversion-07.jpg


So, don't want to cannibalise the original motor, have a few spare FA motors kicking around that could be sacrificed if need be, but, would rather not if I can help it.

Spent a couple hours poking through my junk, and, came up with this...…….A burned up armature out of an English Hornby Dublo locomotive (also 3 rail, for those that don't know)

Lionel-4-4-0-Motor-Conversion-09.jpg


To be continued.....
 

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Interesting - good luck. It would not be original, but a modern can motor would probably fit too. I've always wanted to do one like that just to see how it would work out.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Modern can motor, would run fine, but, wouldn't really be much of an improvement in slow running, as, the gearing would be the same.....

The motor I'm using turns 200 rpm at 12 volts, with massive torque...….BIG difference for crawl speed running, they run just like cruise control, same speed going up the hills as down...
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Just a guess, but, probably around 6,000 rpm/12v...…..Free running...

The big problem, is, as you throttle them down, the torque drops massively...…..And, they become very susceptible to stalling, so, you have to run them faster to prevent this.....

Faster than I like to see them running anyway....

Hence, my conversion...
 

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... The motor I'm using turns 200 rpm at 12 volts, with massive torque...….BIG difference for crawl speed running, they run just like cruise control, same speed going up the hills as down...
Yes. A DC can motor will increase torque with increased load - albeit with reduction in speed. But the gearing multiples the torque increase while minimizing the speed decrease.

I "peeked" online. There seems to be various worm gears for sale for the geared motor's output shaft (or matched sets including the gear for the loco's axle).

Just a note if you haven't looked into that.

Gears.png
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yep, looked at all of that, straight worm gearing only gets you to about 30-40 to one ratio...….Although, better than standard, not nearly enough for what I want...….

Plus, doing it my way, you don't have to mess with changing the axle gear, as I said, I try to do these conversions with the thought that I might want to put them back to original some time

These gear motors I am using are more in the 100-200 to one range, and, they only cost a few dollars.....
 

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Discussion Starter #8
So, anyway, where was I, oh yeah, found that old burned out Hornby Dublo armature, and, the worm gear looks to be just about perfect to mesh with the Lionel drive gear, so, pounded the shaft out, and, off to the Sherline Lathe.....

Had to cut the end off, and, drill it out to 2mm dia (same as the gearmotor shaft)


Lionel-4-4-0-Motor-Conversion-10.jpg

Lionel-4-4-0-Motor-Conversion-11.jpg

Lionel-4-4-0-Motor-Conversion-12.jpg


With the 4:15 mixed Fast Freight pounding across the Sherline Viaduct (AKA my Lathe Bench)

Lionel-4-4-0-Motor-Conversion-13.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Ah, looks like progress...….

Worm shaft cut and drilled, still have to shorten it a bit, and, shorten the gearmotor shaft....

So far, every thing going to plan, no major issues to report...….Yet...


Lionel-4-4-0-Motor-Conversion-16.jpg



Lionel-4-4-0-Motor-Conversion-17.jpg



Lionel-4-4-0-Motor-Conversion-18.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #12
OK, project is on hold till I find my Dremel tool, possibly hiding somewhere in my 3,200 sq ft shed full of various Mini's (8 at last count) and, other assorted British cars and parts.....

But, whilst looking, I did unearth this project I had started some (many) years ago...…

A similar one to the Lionel Old Timer, but, Live Steam.....It is O gauge, but, as you can see, is a bit bigger than the Lionel, probably about 1/32 scale, so, maybe Gn36, as in, 36" gauge Narrow gauge.....

All steel (main chassis cut from 1/8" steel plate), cast iron (wheels) and Bronze (cylinder castings)…

All the machining done by me, and, kind of designing as I go, not working off any real plans.....

Boiler will be copper and, coal fired....

I have a few other O gauge live steam bits and pieces, maybe I will do a separate O Gauge Live Steam post....

0-4-4-0-Live-Steam-01.jpg
 
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