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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone... I am wondering if anyone has seen the American Flyer 24425 car with an ATC symbol on the side... it says Accurate Temperature Control... the cars I see online do not have this emblem..;. appreciate some feedback... thank you so much... your input is much appreciated... Train Girl
 

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I don't know of the car. Never seen it.
Gilbert did make variations. A pic would help,
I think you need 5 posts before you can post a pic.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I don't know of the car. Never seen it.
Gilbert did make variations. A pic would help,
I think you need 5 posts before you can post a pic.
Thank you for posting... smile... will see if I can post photo... appreciate any thoughts...notice that when I look for same car online, none of them seem to have the ATC symbol...
546051
 

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Cant help but welcome i am new kind of all most a year these guys ar really good . they will help and lots of knowledge.

Al
 

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Train Girl, welcome to the MTF! Unfortunately my 24425 is somewhere in storage and not as easy to locate as I wish. I have one NIB and it is the plastic box as you pictured. I do not recall seeing the ATC symbol on it. For comparison here is the re release By Lionel of the 24425 that is on my layout. Note it does not have the ATC symbol. In my experience the Lionel rereleases of these high value Gilbert cars were accurately decorated. That leads me to think the ATC symbol was not on the general run of these cars. Were that a factory production line stamp I think it would have been brighter with better definition consistent with all the other stamps on your car which appears to be in new condition.


B7CD9EFD-56E8-4311-AEAC-3338BFB5DD54.jpeg
 

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I did some additional looking through the old reference books. The 24425 is pictured in three of them and the source is three different collections so the pictures are not of the same car. They are Volume I of the Greenberg guide, the Doyle Guide and the Bubek/Garrigues Rarity Guide. Its rarity is 4+, which means it is rare. None of the three cars has that additional stamp. There were at least two production runs of the 24425, one with KC's and one with Pikemaster trucks/couplers. Both styles are documented w/o the ATC stamp. It is unlikely based on a 4+rarity that more than two runs were made. Assuming the stamping was done by Gilbert it would likely be a preproduction sample. Not sure about 1960 but in earlier years Gilbert would make 12 of these after a hand decorated sample or two for approval of the design was completed. Not sure there is a definitive way to be sure at this point.
 

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Mopac, I bet you could find a 48316 version from Lionel (the one I posted) for $4.99 plus shipping! You seem to be good at that. There are no 1960 originals at that price. You do not want to know what my original, new in the Kleerpack Box cost.
 

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Not even close! Just the original Kleerpack box with the correct ends for that car can sell for $150.
 

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I bought it at the 2002 Fall York from Gary and Laura, the purveyors of NOS Gilbert items for $650. I decided this was the one. On the other hand I have never seen another one in new condition in an unopened box. I also bought the LN condition 500 series silver passenger cars at the same time from them as well. I posted pictures of the passenger cars about three months ago. I must have left my common sense at home that trip to York.
 

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LOL, you didn't leave your wallet. I was way off on that car. But it is a very cool car.
I hope you carry some heavy insurance on your collection.

I do not have a single original Gilbert car in anywhere near new condition.
LOL, I do have some Lionel new cars. Some I have paid as high as 14.99 for. LOL.
 

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Mopac the 24425 BAR Reefer is a rare and sought after car. The fact that it was packaged in a Kleerpack for separate sale makes them even more valuable. I apologize for the earlier typo, the price was $630. I did not need my wallet, my wife was with me so she paid for the purchases while I went on to the next table. Did I point out it is red?
 

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To be honest, I have never heard of this 24425 before now. In all the shows in all the years I have gone to countless train shows, I never saw one. Tom if your friends Gary and Laura were the people I met at the Milwaukee S Fest I attended years back with all those NIB boxed cars on 4 8' tables, they may have had one and I just didn't notice. I do remember there were Kleerpacks displayed. On the other hand, had I seen one I doubt I would have paid that price. My other BAR Reefers don't need that high priced of a companion. I checked my handy dandy copy of David Doyle's American Flyer Trains and the one shown there has no ATC marking on it. The Gilbert Gallery 24425 shown has no ATC marking on it either. It is listed as a 1960.

The new Greenberg American Flyer 1946-2021 Pocket Price Guide has that 24425 listed as a 1960 also. The listed value for the KC car is $620. The Pike Master is listed as $473. In the 1946-2019 price guide the 24425 is listed at $639 for the KC but the Pike Master was the same price. That car has held it's value.
I just got this price guide. It is printed on cheaper paper than the old ones were and not as thick. I haven't taken time to see what's missing.

Tom it looks like your answer to the ATC marking sounds logical and makes sense. By the way, where did you find a wife that pays for your train purchases? My late wife offered to pay for something I found at the Indianapolis Fair Grounds show one year. I said no, that wasn't necessary. She never offered again.

Kenny
 

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Kenny, keep in mind the guide prices are for Ex (7) cars with no box. A 9 or 10 car in its original Kleerpack can bring up to double the guide price. I think the guide price is high, the originals dropped in value a bit when the Lionel reissue came out.
I forgot about the Gilbert Gallery, that makes four photo documented 24425's w/o the added stamp. I am going to look for mine later today, I THINK I MIGHT know where it is.
Regarding payment, in our household there is only one account so it does not matter who does the transaction, its all the same source of funds. And remember my earlier story about my wife telling John Heck we were buying his LN Circus set in the OB without even a discussion of the price.
Regarding the 24425, somewhere I have a listing of all car numbers that were sold in Kleerpacks. I believe the BAR was the only reefer sold in that style box, another reason they are expensive with the OB. Kleerpacks were only used in 1960 and 1961.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I did some additional looking through the old reference books. The 24425 is pictured in three of them and the source is three different collections so the pictures are not of the same car. They are Volume I of the Greenberg guide, the Doyle Guide and the Bubek/Garrigues Rarity Guide. Its rarity is 4+, which means it is rare. None of the three cars has that additional stamp. There were at least two production runs of the 24425, one with KC's and one with Pikemaster trucks/couplers. Both styles are documented w/o the ATC stamp. It is unlikely based on a 4+rarity that more than two runs were made. Assuming the stamping was done by Gilbert it would likely be a preproduction sample. Not sure about 1960 but in earlier years Gilbert would make 12 of these after a hand decorated sample or two for approval of the design was completed. Not sure there is a definitive way to be sure at this point.
Hi Tom... thank you so much...smile... this car also has American Flyer and Gilbert on the bottom... actually was part of my dad's collection...long time collector... smile... I have it on ebay right now... I assumed they all had the symbol until someone asked about it... and then when I looked online... and in books my dad had... cannot find this car with a symbol...very curious about it... if someone had not asked about it... I would never have thought about it...smile... there are been quite a few different comments... and all are appreciated... trying to figure out why this one has the emblem when the others do not...am wondering if it is extremely rare...smile...any ideas? TrainGirl
 

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Train Girl, the car is definitely a factory original Gilbert car. There is one thing I cannot tell from the picture, are those Pikemaster trucks or the sintered iron with KC trucks. If it has KC's then there is a possibility it is one of the factory pre production cars, if they had the ATC stamp on them. If the car has Pikemaster trucks then my opinion is the stamp was added after production. I am leaning toward a post purchase modification because the stamp is not centered between the vertical rows of rivets like the other stampings and it is fainter than the others.
Too bad Gilbert did not put that stamp on all the 24425's.
 
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