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And, since the thread has been revived: I was simply referring to the frequency of accidents, and therefore eliminating cherry picking. But you could easily normalize the data using vehicle miles traveled. I'd be willing to bet the "self-driving" cars have a much lower accident rate, despite the "freak" accidents attributable to malfunctions.
Good points. You can't make determinations from news flashes. And it would be interesting to see solid numbers/statistics from the NTSB. Your likely correct.

On a different note, it's billed as an assist. The driver is burdened to always maintain control. And that's the fallacy of the current state of the technology.

This guy was on his phone. I recall an earlier accident where the driver was watching DVDs. What are you supposed to do - watch the autopilot drive? Accidents can be measured in tenths of seconds. If you not actively driving yourself, your never in control. Your at the mercy of the technology.
 

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If you not actively driving yourself, your never in control. Your at the mercy of the technology.
Hence my personal preference to not have driver assist. I want to be in control of my vehicle. I'LL decide when to speed up, slow down, change lanes, etc.
 

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And, since the thread has been revived: I was simply referring to the frequency of accidents, and therefore eliminating cherry picking. But you could easily normalize the data using vehicle miles traveled. I'd be willing to bet the "self-driving" cars have a much lower accident rate, despite the "freak" accidents attributable to malfunctions.
And if you bothered to look at my last post, I agreed with you. It's natural to hype anything new or mysterious. That doesn't excuse the flaws that are still there, and just like the Boeing 737MAX situation, Tesla should be held accountable for their technology failing. Truthfully, I think the biggest problem with truly self-driving cars is the fact that the roads are not suited to the technology in many cases. Add to that the incidents of people hacking even non-self driving cars, and you have an environment where incidents like this are bound to happen now and again.

I'm am curious why the Tesla wanted to drive into that barrier so badly that it kept trying every time it passed it. Of course, I'm also wondering why the driver let the autopilot loose when he'd have problems on that very stretch of highway with the autopilot. Did he figure the autopilot finally learned it's lesson, or was he just stupid? ;)
 

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I'm am curious why the Tesla wanted to drive into that barrier so badly that it kept trying every time it passed it. Of course, I'm also wondering why the driver let the autopilot loose when he'd have problems on that very stretch of highway with the autopilot. Did he figure the autopilot finally learned it's lesson, or was he just stupid? ;)
My thoughts exactly! :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #85
And it'll,never work properly in Canada....not on our icy winter roads....won't be able to stop in time when required.....that's where good old human judgement will prevail.....sure there are still accidents, but no one can ever account for bad judgement.....human or otherwise....

Still can't figure out why man is so bent on having machines do everything for them....why? So they can spend more time staring blankly at their phones? There is no hope for our species.....
 

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By the time I trust autonomous cars, I'll probably be too old to care! There are some of the new features that make sense to me, but it's impossible to make the automation foolproof, fools are so ingenious! Take the guy that let the Tesla kill him on the same stretch of road that he know gave the automation problems, how dumb is that?

I watch the show Air Disasters, it's amazing how many times that even seasoned pilots let the automation kill them and their passengers when something goes amiss! First rule of flying, fly the plane! That's the first rule of driving as well! Don't let the automation kill you!
 

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Wait till they have self driving tractor trailers motoring down the road. They are out there now being tested.
Especially if they are loaded with 7000 gals of Hazmats and something goes wrong.:rolleyes:
I have given up 5 new tractors because of the automatic trans and collision control on them. Just like GPS....I don't need them!

Ha Ha Ha,...........the day it coming and I will be glad that I will be retired by then.

Lord help us! :smokin:
 

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A 1990 colleague, a Principal Consultant, bought a first year Nissan NSX, Nissan's entry into the super-car arena. On route 1, NJ, circa Princeton, he smacked the guy in front of him pretty hard - with the A$$ end of the NSX.

He told me: "The traction control confused me."
 

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A 1990 colleague, a Principal Consultant, bought a first year Nissan NSX, Nissan's entry into the super-car arena. On route 1, NJ, circa Princeton, he smacked the guy in front of him pretty hard - with the A$$ end of the NSX.

He told me: "The traction control confused me."
Well, I don't think I'd abandon traction control for that reason. I actually think handling has come a long ways, and stuff like anti-lock brakes, electronic stability control, etc. are great advances, and have doubtless minimized the accident rate over non-equipped cars. It took me a while to get used to anti-lock brakes, but now I can't imagine driving without them. Even motorcycle makers have recognized the value of anti-lock brakes and electronic stability control.

That's a far cry from self-driving cars.
 

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Well, I don't think I'd abandon traction control for that reason. I actually think handling has come a long ways, and stuff like anti-lock brakes, electronic stability control, etc. are great advances, and have doubtless minimized the accident rate over non-equipped cars. It took me a while to get used to anti-lock brakes, but now I can't imagine driving without them. Even motorcycle makers have recognized the value of anti-lock brakes and electronic stability control.

That's a far cry from self-driving cars.
They are worthless on 18 wheels. ABS that is.
Even 2 DOT inspectors told me that.

Even worse if the trailer has it and the tractor doesn't.
And on single bore tankers they are more dangerous then beneficial.

On cars I agree anti lock are better. With inexperienced drivers all they do is lay on the brakes hard anyway.
I guess they were never taught stab and release. So when you lay on the brakes with anti lock that is supposed to do that for you.
Works fine,.......... if it is working right.
 

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Driving with 4 wheels is a far cry from 18 wheels. I hasten to add, that I had no problems with regular brakes before anti-lock brakes. I was never a hold it to the floor until it stops kind of guy in any case. I also drove for years in real winters with rear wheel drive and regular tires, no problem if the idiot in front of me didn't to something stupid. ;)

I learned at the raceway that when you were braking it wasn't a good time to also be turning, only so much traction to go around. It seems so logical, but I see all sorts of people all over the brakes on wet or slippery roads in a turn! Too late stupid, you should have been at the right speed before you got into the turn! I also have gotten to see a good number of them doing some cross country travel before the crash. ;)
 

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Still can't figure out why man is so bent on having machines do everything for them....why? So they can spend more time staring blankly at their phones? There is no hope for our species.....
There’s a good question. It has evolved towards that with each new generation.
We grew up in the beginning of the modern technical age. We watched in awe as the atomic bomb was built, atomic energy created, and men got to the moon.

Humans not only developed the technology, but also directly controlled it. If there was a problem, we fixed it. (Apollo 13).
Now we have ‘advanced’ to the point where our technology is creating and controlling newer technology. Each new generation of scientists seems to be increasingly ok with that.

I think phones do have something to do with it. The constant technological connection. They can’t get along without their microchip sidekick.
Maybe Tesla and Boeing are waking up and will lead the way back to something more sensible. Maybe. We’ll see.
 

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I'd like to think that in the most altruistic sense the "hope for our species" would be the ability to concentrate on or complete other tasks that may be back-burnered simply due to lack of time. Granted you're not going to get much done stuffed into a self-driving subcompact but that space once reserved for the meat pilot could be converted into a mini lab for the research scientist, or mobile library for the student....or makeup table for women who're going to be putting it on whether they're driving or not!

I'm a luddite when it comes to certain things but this is one technology I am desperately hoping gets sorted to an acceptable level of reliability and soon-as someone that commutes by bike I'll take 1000 fire truck attracted teslas over 100000 self-absorbed distracted idiots any day.
 

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Discussion Starter #97
The only way self drivers could possibly be successful is if EVERY ucar on the road is a self driver.....and by that time, unless real cars are legislated off the road, I'll be in the bone yard, thank God....

And I'd like to see them try to legislate real cars off the road....they'll have to pry steering wheels out of cold, dead hands! :laugh:
 

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:) :)Old HOBO maybe one of those self-absorbed distracted idiots will help you along, sooner rather than later. :eek: :) :)
I really don't see self driving cars in the near future.
One or two by themselves might work but what happens
when there are 20 or 30 cars in the near vicinity and signals get mixed up.
Or changing weather and road conditions?
There are just so many variables it's going to take some serious computing
power to overcome this and I don't think we're there yet.

Magic
 

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It's clear we're not there yet or we wouldn't be talking about self-driving cars crashing. :) I can see where idiot drivers could take out a self-driving car and it not being the self-driving at fault. However, when there's a one-car accident with a self-driving car, there's not another car to blame.
 

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Discussion Starter #100
Thanks for the good wishes, Magic....and to you as well......;)
 
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