Model Train Forum banner

1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
650 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
How do I bypass this e-unit and wire this engine to run forward only?

The e-unit is defective.

Thanks

 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,617 Posts
This is why I love older Lionel locomotives, they are easy to work with... All you need to do is rip out the e-unit and patch up the circuit you just broke...

On the left side, you have two wires (red and bronze) going into the e-unit... I am assuming that one of those comes from the smoke unit and the other comes from the pick-up rollers... On the right side you have three wires going into the e-unit... The two wires circled in blue are for the two brushes, and the wire circled in red goes to the coil... What you need to do is connect the wire coming from the pick-up rollers to one of the blue circles, and then connect the coil wire to the other blue circle (in the picture, connect red with blue, red with blue)... Now, I am not sure which of the red circles go with which of the blue circles for your particular motor... Just try it one way and you will know if you have them mixed up because the locomotive will run in reverse ;)

The easiest thing to do would probably be just break the wires off at the e-unit, connect red to blue and red to blue, test it out on the track, and if need be switch them... Then you will know that when you solder new wire in that they are going to the right places...

As far as connecting the smoke unit, you can either tie it into the wire for the light (I do not see that in the picture you provided) or you can extend it and attach it to the same blue circle you attached the wire coming from the pick-up rollers to...


PS: I hope that was not too confusing, I really suck at explaining things :eek:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
650 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
You're too awesome for words!:thumbsup:

Thanks much!

Dale
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
650 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
This is why I love older Lionel locomotives, they are easy to work with... All you need to do is rip out the e-unit and patch up the circuit you just broke...

On the left side, you have two wires (red and bronze) going into the e-unit... I am assuming that one of those comes from the smoke unit and the other comes from the pick-up rollers... On the right side you have three wires going into the e-unit... The two wires circled in blue are for the two brushes, and the wire circled in red goes to the coil... What you need to do is connect the wire coming from the pick-up rollers to one of the blue circles, and then connect the coil wire to the other blue circle (in the picture, connect red with blue, red with blue)... Now, I am not sure which of the red circles go with which of the blue circles for your particular motor... Just try it one way and you will know if you have them mixed up because the locomotive will run in reverse ;)

The easiest thing to do would probably be just break the wires off at the e-unit, connect red to blue and red to blue, test it out on the track, and if need be switch them... Then you will know that when you solder new wire in that they are going to the right places...

As far as connecting the smoke unit, you can either tie it into the wire for the light (I do not see that in the picture you provided) or you can extend it and attach it to the same blue circle you attached the wire coming from the pick-up rollers to...


PS: I hope that was not too confusing, I really suck at explaining things :eek:

I tried it but it didn't work.

It used to groan but now it's dead silent.

I tried the wires in other arrangements with no luck.

Guess it needs that e-unit to work?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
650 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I'll replace the old wires tomorrow and see if new wires help.

Maybe the motor is gone?

Dale
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,617 Posts
Maybe the motor is gone?
It is possible... I would need the locomotive in hand to look it over... The wiring may be bad, it is also possible that the wiring elsewhere is bad... Do you have a multimeter to test it? Maybe T-Man will be on soon to chime in on this...

Just to be 100% sure, these are the wiring setups you tried? I should have drew this picture in the first place, LOL :eek:

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
650 Posts
Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
It is possible... I would need the locomotive in hand to look it over... The wiring may be bad, it is also possible that the wiring elsewhere is bad... Do you have a multimeter to test it? Maybe T-Man will be on soon to chime in on this...

Just to be 100% sure, these are the wiring setups you tried? I should have drew this picture in the first place, LOL :eek:

Yes, that's it.

The pickups are working because the smoker works.

I'll rig some alligator clips and wires tomorrow to check for life.

Maybe the motor is toast.
 

·
Yard Master & Research
Joined
·
10,652 Posts
What's bad with the eunit? Did the drum break?
B&M the wiring looked ok. It's a shame to do this to a nice engine.

You will have to check if there is a short between the armature plate and shaft. You can do this with a powered test light.




Might need this
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
650 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
What's bad with the eunit? Did the drum break?
B&M the wiring looked ok. It's a shame to do this to a nice engine.

You will have to check if there is a short between the armature plate and shaft. You can do this with a powered test light.




Might need this

Yes, the problem isn't with the e-unit. Or at least it's not just the e-unit.

I wired the motor direct and got nothing. I found the roller assembly was mounted upside down and the power stem wasn't properily insulated but these weren't the problem either.

I wired the engine and pushed it down the track and it would kick in and run maybe 3 inches and stop.

The problem is within the motor itself.

Now I either have to buy a new motor or figure out how to rebuild this one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
650 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I just opened the motor...ah, is this a problem?

 

·
Yard Master & Research
Joined
·
10,652 Posts
Where are the brushes!
If the motor jitters back and forth but not spin then it is bad.
I tried to rewind and only fitted half the turns so I lost half the motor power. I practiced with two armatures. When you see the price for an atomic armature you may want to buy another engine.

If the eunit didn't cause it the owner probably knew it. I guess you have to learn how to fix them or buy dependable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
650 Posts
Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
If I cleaned the armature plate and had couple new springs (mounted the right way) I'll bet she'd work fine.

I just ordered the brushes and springs off ebay. They cost $8 shipped.

What do you all think?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
650 Posts
Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
That's one for the books. The engine, overall looked really clean and in great condition. Hope it works out. I think you found the problem. Whew:rolleyes:

Yes, this engine looks like it was used very little. The story again was it spent its time as a store display and was discovered in an old hobby shop (words to that affect).

The steamer and tender almost look like they just came out of their boxes.

By looking at the armature plate it's clear it was run some but with the brushes in backwards it didn't hold up long. Funny somebody didn't just fix it.

I'm glad because I got both together for approx. $120 ebay bid, and I've learned something about the vintage higher-grade Lionels. They sure beat the newer scouts--that's for sure!

And too I like the smoke feature and this baby smokes like nothing I ever saw before! The one time I got it to go around the track I put in a few drops of smoke and it nealy smoked me out of the basement! :laugh: It smokes just like those videos I've seen of the new expensive steamers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
650 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
I got the steamer working (front and back) but now the smoker quit! :thumbsdown:

The unit gets hot but no smoke.

I guess I'll have to take it apart and install one of those rebuild kits.

It seems like the piston is sticking too now.

Oh, I found out what was causing the e-unit to act-up. It's the tender. For some reason when I use the original tender it sparks and causes the engine to shift directions. Maybe an electrical problem?

Dale
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,617 Posts
Oh, I found out what was causing the e-unit to act-up. It's the tender. For some reason when I use the original tender it sparks and causes the engine to shift directions. Maybe an electrical problem?
Here is how the e-unit works... It is quite the setup...

  • There is an electromagnet with a hole cut straight down the middle...
  • Inside of that hole fits a metal rod...
  • When power is applied to the locomotive the electromagnet creates a charge and pulls the metal rod up...
  • When power is cut, the magnetic charge disappears causing the metal rod to drop...
  • Connected to the bottom of the metal rod is a hook...
  • Also in the e-unit is a drum...
  • This drum has four rows of thin metal strips positioned in a certain order...
  • In the center of the drum is a gear...
  • When the metal rod is lifted up into the electromagnet the hook catches the gear on the drum and rotates it...
  • Depending on the pattern that the thin metal strips are in, either the circuit is completed causing the engine to move forward, or the circuit is completed causing the engine to move in reverse, or the circuit is not completed and the engine does not move (there are two neutral positions in the e-unit)...
So when your tender sparks it must be causing a short, which in turn cuts the magnetic charge in the e-unit for a split second, meaning that it cycles which position the e-unit is in...
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top