Model Train Forum banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,138 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have built a new layout using Peck code 83. My fleet of locomotives was greatly cut down in preparation to this. There are two that I did not want to let go of, an Riverosi cab forward and a Mantua center cab. Both I converted to full dcc with sound. Issue is that in the turnouts they hit the frogs and jump the tracks. Any way to fix this? The flanges seem to large.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,269 Posts
I would recheck track alignment and also up/down transitions. Is turnout laying flat or does it have a hump at the frog.

My Riverossi cab forward does not derail , but the flanges do hit the tie plates on code 83 Atlas. I've started cutting the flanges down on the smaller Rivarossi steamers. My turnouts are a mix of very old brass Atlas , custom line, newer rivitless Atlas and Peco. Also mix of code 100 and 83.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,138 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
At first I thought it was the laying of the turnout but it is every turnout on they layout. The leading and trailing trucks always jump. The wheels do sometimes. If I push it through by had I can feel it hitting the frog. Are the frogs on the Peck turnouts shallower than others possibly?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,888 Posts
If I had to guess, the flanges aren't making it past the guards. Use your NMRA gauge to check the flange spacing...AND THICKNESS... on those truck axles. Then pass your flange gauge nubs through the frogs.

Can you remove the trucks and finger-push them, very light downward pressure, through the frogs? You will soon know what's happening, and why.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
827 Posts
The only way I think you can really fix this is will be to:
1. Change out the "high flange" wheels for wheels that are compatible for code 83 rail
or
2. Go back to code 100 rail.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,180 Posts
The older Rivarossi locomotives had large flanges and its most likely that this is you problem. It's possible that the space between the frog and the guard rail can be filed a little deeper. other than this, your stuck with getting new wheels or having the flanges turned down. If you have the flanges turned, only remove what is necessary as turning to "modern" standards apparently can ruin the wheels.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,269 Posts
It's not just the flanges, read my post #2. I just ran my cab forward around again to make sure my memory was correct.
The front pilot truck (four wheels under the cab) has wheels that look like split axle shafts. Make sure they are still in gauge. The rear trailing turck (two wheels) has solid axle with one wheel insulated. Make sure they are all in gauge.

Post #4 is a good idea as the trucks are easily removed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,180 Posts
The pilot and trailing trucks also have large flanges, but it may be easier to find wheels and axles that have smaller diameter flanges. Look closely at what is happening, are the wheels climbing out at the frogs?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
714 Posts
If I had to guess, the flanges aren't making it past the guards. Use your NMRA gauge to check the flange spacing...AND THICKNESS... on those truck axles. Then pass your flange gauge nubs through the frogs.

Can you remove the trucks and finger-push them, very light downward pressure, through the frogs? You will soon know what's happening, and why.
deleted/ entered in wrong post
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
714 Posts
The only way I think you can really fix this is will be to:
1. Change out the "high flange" wheels for wheels that are compatible for code 83 rail
or
2. Go back to code 100 rail.
Not true..He can turn down the flanges..I'm sure there's a 'how to' in forum or on YouTube..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
443 Posts
That’s why my layout is specifically code 100 track. I have two rivarossi locos that have the deep flanges that I would run and was willing to sacrifice the realism to make it so I could run those locomotives. When I belonged to a local club they had code 83 track and the rivarossi locos wouldn’t make it 15 feet without being off the ground
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,494 Posts
Flanges can be carefully turned down with a Dremel and a sanding drum. You need only take off a few hundred thousandths of material to quiet these wheels.

Wheel/axle assemblies can also be changed out for modern wheel sets.

I have three Era IIc/IIIa Roco coaches with larger flanges that strike the fishplate spikes on code 83 track. They have no problem on code 83 track and will negotiate turnouts without trouble, but there is a distinctive clicking sound made by these three coaches while in motion. While the railroad is in operation with sound equipped locomotives this is not noticable so I will not replace the wheels or turn them down.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,269 Posts
Not true..He can turn down the flanges..I'm sure there's a 'how to' in forum or on YouTube..
Easier said than done. The Rivarossi 4-wheel trailing trucks are put together , assembled, permanently. I can see no way of getting the axles and wheels out without breaking the frame. Spreading the truck sides out with old brittle plastic is risky business. I did this with the 4-6-4 model which has the same truck.

The next problem is the nickle plating is gone.
540854
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
827 Posts
If it's going to be too much time and trouble, it might be better to just "retire" these two engines and look for "modern replacements" with appropriately-sized wheels... 🎃
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,180 Posts
Dennis, what is the problem with doing a slight grind on the flanges and the loss of the nickel plating? Have you looked at replacing the wheel sets with ones from newer Rivarossi locomotives?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
443 Posts
if you take the flanges down a little bit I doubt it would really hurt anything. Either that or go and get newer models
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,494 Posts
It's not rocket science. A Dremel and a sanding drum will take the flange down a few hundred thousandths with little effort.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,180 Posts
I have an old Rivarossi Berk that still runs, so I might change the trucks on just the tender to pick up power for a DCC decoder and isolate the engines motor and lights. I think taking a little off the Locomotives wheels should do the trick on my code 83 rail. I had heard that just filing the flanges exposed things and that caused some sort of problem, seems that it doesn't.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,319 Posts
I'm surprised nobody has asked what brand of turnouts are being used? I know some like Atlas have a shallow plastic fill around the frog that the flanges are expected to ride on, but other brands have left the area beside the frog open so deeper flanges can go through. I have a Mantua 0-4-0 from the 70's which I am running on code-70 track and hand-laid turnouts (I don't fill in around my frogs at all) and it does work fine there, but only barely.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top