Model Train Forum banner
1 - 3 of 3 Posts

· Registered
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have a Con-Cor undecorated "coach", #223-701, but I can't find anything about what the real RR passenger coach is supposed to be. It seems to be 85' (scale). Here is a link to #223-702:
What I want to know is what kind of "coach" it is based on: Pullman, Budd, ???
How many seats/passengers?
What railroad(s) used it (originally), etc?
When was it made?
How true is the model to an actual coach car that was in RR service?
Was it ever run on Canadian Pacific?
What is the floor plan and/or seating pattern?
Thanks in advance for your imput!


· Registered
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I finally found out what my Con-Cor model coach was based on, with some discrepancies in the web page writeups. Here are the links to images and web pages with the info, which are about Con-Cor #223-702 Santa Fe (whereas mine is the undecorated #223-701). The car I finally found on the net is a privately owned car renamed "Regal Phoenix", that was originally a Santa Fe coach #3166.

{The following web page has photos of both sides of the Con-Cor model and one of an ATSF car to compare:}

"Concor model 702 is an 85' fluted coach. Close to Budd-built (1941-46) ATSF 3137-3168 [32 cars?], but you have to substitute a Budd roof [?], change the letterboard corrugations, and change the trucks. The bud roof needs some additional vents for perfection.
These cars were built as 60 seat chair cars and re-equipped with 42 leg rest chairs in 1954."
Stagner, Lloyd E. ATSF Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment. Edison, NJ: Morning Sun Books, 1995. Page 9 has a photo of 3138 as re-equipped to 42 leg rest chair car.
Car and Locomotive Plans for Model Railroaders. Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway System, 1953. Includes drawing and photo. The drawing, in error, has a Pullman roof, which also explains the model. Concor used this bad drawing from which to make their model.

{This writeup says that this group of Budd cars were built as a 60 seat chair cars, while the following writeup says they were built as 52 seat coach cars and almost got converted to 60 seats; maybe most of the group were converted but this one, "Regal Phoenix", wasn't. If anyone can research this further, with books on railroad cars, none of which I own, I'd be grateful! AMRoadFan}

Santa Fe Coach [renamed] "Regal Phoenix"
Built by the Budd Company as one of sixteen cars [16?] in lot number 9613 - 001. Ordered in May 1941 and delivered in March 1946 as 52 seat coach number 3166. This car saw service on many Santa Fe streamline trains, one of which was the Hassayampa Flyer which ran from Phoenix to Williams Junction. The car went to Amtrak in 1971 and was renumbered 5236. The car was scheduled for shop work and conversion to 60 seats in 1976 but the work was never done. [Maybe this one coach escaped the conversion to "60 seat chair car" mentioned above].
Retired in1977 and sold to the U.S. Air Force the car was moved to Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. The interior was mostly removed to facilitate rebuilding as a hospitality car. The work was never completed. The car was purchased by John Clark in 1990. Mr. Clark sold the car in 1993 to Rail Preservation Inc. of Scottsdale, Arizona. The car was passed on to the museum in 1996. The Arizona Railway Museum re-named the car "Regal Phoenix" and is continuing the re-build of the car as a full lounge.
See webpage:
See photo: Phoenix 6-2001.jpg


More images of ATSF 3166 / "Regal Phoenix".
Note that on the side view with the door to camera right, two of the picture windows are missing, probably removed and covered over by the current or previous owner(s).
{This is a brochure; see the second page for a small image.}

Well, I think I've taken this as far as I can. Unless anyone can add anything further, I'm going to let this post/topic rest.
1 - 3 of 3 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.