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Discussion Starter #1
I got these auto racks made by Jeuf because o though they looked neat and I'm a car guy. I found some NEM adapters so I could mount Kadee couplers in place of the European style talgo trucks. They seem simple enough, but there isn't enough swing in the coupler and they bind even on my r22 curves when coupled together. One behind the loco did fine, and I imagine a might get away with putting other cars between then, I just haven't tried it yet. But they won't go back to back. I have an 89' enclosed autorack that takes that curve fine, although I only have one, so I can't test two together. Any ideas on how to get more coupler swing in this setup? Or a different option completely? I'd love to run these.



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What is that "T" thing? Do the trucks hit it? I did have that problem on some covered hoppers.
Following.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
What is that "T" thing? Do the trucks hit it? I did have that problem on some covered hoppers.
Following.
I'm not sure what you are referring to. The trucks do not have d any interference though. I watched closely, the problem is definitely in the couplers.

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I think you mean Jouef.

I've never seen short arm coupler mounts on that long of a European model. Models of this length, like passenger coaches usually have a spring loaded articulated coupler arm that swings over and is pulled out as the car enters the curve. Upon entering the straight section again the coupler arm retracts as it returns to a neutral position.

Jouef does things differently I guess.

Are you certain that the buffers are not causing the problem in the curve?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Fairly certain, but since you bring it up I will double check that when I get a chance. These had talgo trucks initially, which I have trimmed off.

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So, the kind of car that actually does better with tango trucks, and you cut them off.....why? And yet, you keep the tango trucks on cars that would be better without.....

Sorry, but that just doesn’t make any logical sense to me.....
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
So, the kind of car that actually does better with tango trucks, and you cut them off.....why? And yet, you keep the tango trucks on cars that would be better without.....

Sorry, but that just doesn’t make any logical sense to me.....
They were European couplers, so useless to me as they were. And in in the prices of changing over any talgo trucks and him and horn couplers that I can, to body mount Kadee couplers.

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Discussion Starter #8
So, the kind of car that actually does better with tango trucks, and you cut them off.....why? And yet, you keep the tango trucks on cars that would be better without.....

Sorry, but that just doesn’t make any logical sense to me.....
Also, can you elaborate a little? What type of car does better with talgo trucks? And why?

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Discussion Starter #9
Here is a pic at the point of binding. The buffers have plenty of clearance here. The lead car has two wheels up at this point.

Four options I see;

1: move the couplers back to get them closer to the car body
2: Kadee 451
3: Kadee 454 (required something to mount it too... Possibly option 4 required)
4: new talgo trucks with Kadee mounts. This option may require a long shank couplers as I'm not sure standard talgo trucks are long enough.

I'm not certain on any of these by the way, that's just the options I see that might have a chance.



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Do you have a link to a product page for these adapters that might have an exploded view to show how they operate?

Have you considered using a "long-shank" Kadee coupler?
(although it looks like it wouldn't help)

Could you show us a pic of the ENTIRE car?
I'd like to see how long it is.

From the pic above, there isn't nearly enough "swing" to the coupler shanks. I'm thinking these cars are just too long for your layout. That's the way it goes with smaller layouts with tighter curves.

On my layout (4x8 with an "L" extension), the maximum radius is about 22" (using Kato Unitrack). The longest cars I run are 54' covered hoppers...
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Well, for comparison here is the same corner with an 89' autorack connected to an 80' passenger car. These two together negotiate the corner fine, although the autorack is nearly at it's maximum swing. It will run around this loop all day without issues though.

I think a long shank would be worse,I think it needs more swing. These couplers don't seem to have as much seeing as a standard Kadee box.

Here is the two autoracks side by side for comparison and some better pics of how I have it setup. You can see the issue with mounting a standard Kadee gear box dye to the lip. The NEM adapters give urgent clearance and take a Kadee 18, 19 or 20.


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Why you want to mix Euro type cars (having buffers) with US type cars I don't get..
But from what I can gather, the reason the cars swing so far out is that the trucks are too far in from the ends of the car causing the coupler 'gathering-range' to over-max out..
Best way to ameliorate the problem would be to move the trucks outward...But this is a big job and these particular strange looking cars don't seem worth the effort..
If it were me I'd cut my losses, moth ball these cars, and fuggeddaboudit !!!
 

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I think, restore the talgo trucks, with Kadee adapters and couplers. The talgo trucks were the mfg's solution to the geometry.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I think, restore the talgo trucks, with Kadee adapters and couplers. The talgo trucks were the mfg's solution to the geometry.
I'm not sure there is a way to do that. At least not that won't look extremely goofy.

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Discussion Starter #17
Why you want to mix Euro type cars (having buffers) with US type cars I don't get..
But from what I can gather, the reason the cars swing so far out is that the trucks are too far in from the ends of the car causing the coupler 'gathering-range' to over-max out..
Best way to ameliorate the problem would be to move the trucks outward...But this is a big job and these particular strange looking cars don't seem worth the effort..
If it we me I'd cut my losses, moth ball these cars, and fuggeddaboudit !!!
To each his own. I like seeing the different types of autoracks and plan to integrate more when I get the time.

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I got these auto racks made by Jeuf because o though they looked neat and I'm a car guy. I found some NEM adapters so I could mount Kadee couplers in place of the European style talgo trucks. They seem simple enough, but there isn't enough swing in the coupler and they bind even on my r22 curves when coupled together. One behind the loco did fine, and I imagine a might get away with putting other cars between then, I just haven't tried it yet. But they won't go back to back. I have an 89' enclosed autorack that takes that curve fine, although I only have one, so I can't test two together. Any ideas on how to get more coupler swing in this setup? Or a different option completely? I'd love to run these.



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I got these auto racks made by Jeuf because o though they looked neat and I'm a car guy. I found some NEM adapters so I could mount Kadee couplers in place of the European style talgo trucks. They seem simple enough, but there isn't enough swing in the coupler and they bind even on my r22 curves when coupled together. One behind the loco did fine, and I imagine a might get away with putting other cars between then, I just haven't tried it yet. But they won't go back to back. I have an 89' enclosed autorack that takes that curve fine, although I only have one, so I can't test two together. Any ideas on how to get more coupler swing in this setup? Or a different option completely? I'd love to run these.



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vette-kid;

Your clear close-up photo of the couplers in a curve shows the basic problem. The now rigidly body-mounted couplers are way out over the rail because of the length of the cars, the relative positions of the trucks and couplers, and the tightness of even your 22" radius for those cars. That's why the manufacturer put talgo trucks on these cars in the first place, to let them make it around tight curves. The couplers need to be able to move when the car is in a curve. There are several ways this is done, but the easiest would be to mount Kadee talgo trucks with long shank couplers on the cars. The file below explains truck-mounted (talgo) vs. body mounted and behavior in curves.

Good luck;

Traction Fan :)
 

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Ya, that's kinda where I was going, too, when I suggested reverting to the Talgo trucks...:D
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I have actually ordered a set of walthers talgo trucks, as well as an assortment of Kadee options. There are so many different options for Kadee couplers it's mind boggling! I do fear the walthers trucks may have to be modified a bit to fit the plastic pins on these. But I think it's doable.

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