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Discussion Starter #22
I always get the fresh meat products put in plastic bags before putting them in the cloth ones.....pretty much eliminates that problem....
Same here. The stores usually put the meat in produce bags first. They’re recycled along with the grocery bags.
 

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I always thought this was a great idea, until I moved to a state that had one. NY has a 5 cent deposit on soda, beer and water bottles and cans.

The problem with it was that the return centers at the grocery stores were usually crowded, and many times the machines were either full or not working.

They use a system called Deposit Link, which is supposed to accept all brands that were purchased in-state. The reality of that was much different.

You could always go to the customer service desk at the store if the machine wouldn’t take it, and stand in that line.

A lot of those containers wind up being tossed in the trash or directly recycled. What happens to that deposit money?

After dealing with it for 10 years, I came to the conclusion that it’s not worth it. Just put recycling bins in. Forget the 5 cents. (Or 10 in some states). Glad I don’t need to mess with it anymore.
Instead of going to the store, simply go to a can and bottle redemption center. There are 3 within 5 miles of me. You drive in, they unload your vehicle, they do all the counting and sorting while you listen to your radio, and when they're done, they had you cash..Can't beat that!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #24
I always thought this was a great idea, until I moved to a state that had one. NY has a 5 cent deposit on soda, beer and water bottles and cans.

The problem with it was that the return centers at the grocery stores were usually crowded, and many times the machines were either full or not working.

They use a system called Deposit Link, which is supposed to accept all brands that were purchased in-state. The reality of that was much different.

You could always go to the customer service desk at the store if the machine wouldn’t take it, and stand in that line.

A lot of those containers wind up being tossed in the trash or directly recycled. What happens to that deposit money?

After dealing with it for 10 years, I came to the conclusion that it’s not worth it. Just put recycling bins in. Forget the 5 cents. (Or 10 in some states). Glad I don’t need to mess with it anymore.
Instead of going to the store, simply go to a can and bottle redemption center. There are 3 within 5 miles of me. You drive in, they unload your vehicle, they do all the counting and sorting while you listen to your radio, and when they're done, they had you cash..Can't beat that!!!
They didn’t have those on eastern Long Island. Sounds great, but not an issue for me anymore.
 

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Same here. The stores usually put the meat in produce bags first. They’re recycled along with the grocery bags.
We have certain bags (with a foil liner insulation) that are used for meat products. We do have a spray bottle of bleach solution (1/4 cup bleach to a gallon of water), so if anything leaks, we wipe it out with a paper towel and spray it with the bleach solution.

If any bags get too cruddy (meat, dirt, whatever), I just put a couple of inches of water in the deep sink in the laundry room and give them a bath. Or you can just throw them out. They don't last forever in any case.
 

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We have certain bags (with a foil liner insulation) that are used for meat products. We do have a spray bottle of bleach solution (1/4 cup bleach to a gallon of water), so if anything leaks, we wipe it out with a paper towel and spray it with the bleach solution.

If any bags get too cruddy (meat, dirt, whatever), I just put a couple of inches of water in the deep sink in the laundry room and give them a bath. Or you can just throw them out. They don't last forever in any case.
Thanks, You answered my question. Do you clean the reusable bags out. Apparently there are some people that are too lazy to do it.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
We have certain bags (with a foil liner insulation) that are used for meat products. We do have a spray bottle of bleach solution (1/4 cup bleach to a gallon of water), so if anything leaks, we wipe it out with a paper towel and spray it with the bleach solution.

If any bags get too cruddy (meat, dirt, whatever), I just put a couple of inches of water in the deep sink in the laundry room and give them a bath. Or you can just throw them out. They don't last forever in any case.
Thanks, You answered my question. Do you clean the reusable bags out. Apparently there are some people that are too lazy to do it.
So, after a Google search on this, I found an article from Arizona that says “ Reusable grocery bags pose a significant public health threat.” Supposedly the worst thing you can do is leave them in your car, as high temperatures can increase bacterial growth.
You can throw them in the washing machine and that will suffice. Remove the stiffener insert from the bottom first.
Personally, I think the use of anti-bacterial products is more of a health threat, but it’s worth to know. And as was mentioned before, I think putting meat in plastic bags all but eliminates this problem.
 
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Prrfan, I lived in NY and experienced all the problems you noted with bottle returns. It would be much easier if the stores had a couple of people at the bottle return but that's too expensive.

Fortunately, we don't have a deposit law in Florida. Drink bottles and cans go into recycling and that's fine with me. The deposit law is IMHO just another tax.
 

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Fortunately, we don't have a deposit law in Florida. Drink bottles and cans go into recycling and that's fine with me. The deposit law is IMHO just another tax.
We find the exact opposite.....a deposit is helping to keep bottles and cans from littering the city, because people will be motivated to take them in to get the deposit back.....

It's great to think that everybody will recycle from the goodness of their hearts, but there are many, and I mean many, people who don't give a crap, and will just toss cans and bottles on the ground, in the ditch, wherever.....and that's a damn shame.....:eek:hwell:
 

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In NJ, we still have plastic supermarket bags (maybe not for long?). I get two uses out each bag. The first, bringing home groceries. The second, for my general refuse. That is, I have a basket of the right size to hold the supermarket bags for kitchen garbage. I haven't purchased a plastic trash bag in several decades.

On another note, my town moved to automated garbage trucks. They only have a driver (saves labor costs). The truck's mechanism picks and empties dedicated cans provided by the town. One can for general garbage and another for all recyclables. The cans are huge (you can make a summer bungalow out of 'em).

The recycle can takes paper, cans, bottles and plastic. I don't know how they sort that mix for recycling, but it sure is convenient.

Lastly, I'm not a fan of electric vehicles. They have a huge problem when the batteries die after 5+ years ($8K to replace them). Their best advantage is recovering energy in stop-and-go traffic. And what vehicle does more stop-and-go than a garbage truck ...
 

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The recycle can takes paper, cans, bottles and plastic. I don't know how they sort that mix for recycling, but it sure is convenient.
It's actually a pretty impressive process. First, they run it down a conveyor belt, where workers pick out and discard any obviously non-recyclable items or items that require special handling (batteries). Then it goes into a huge machine, where the plastic floats and is skimmed off the top, metal sinks to the bottom, and after removal from the machine it can be further sorted into ferrous and non-ferrous by electromagnets. The paper sludge is collected, screened, pressed and dried, then shipped to a mill for conversion into other paper products. Plastics can be further sorted by type, ground, and heated to make pellets, which are often shipped to factories by rail.

Lastly, I'm not a fan of electric vehicles. They have a huge problem when the batteries die after 5+ years ($8K to replace them). Their best advantage is recovering energy in stop-and-go traffic. And what vehicle does more stop-and-go than a garbage truck ...
It would be a mistake to judge a new type of product by it's current state. Today's electric vehicles are nothing like the ones of just a few years ago. My mother had a hybrid vehicle in which the battery pack started showing reduced capacity after about 5 years; Tesla now guarantees theirs for 10 -- longer than most people keep a car. Even 5 years would affect the resale market more than new car purchasers. Companies that are betting heavily on electric vehicles becoming big (Volkswagen, Ford, Nissan, Toyota, Tesla) have also pioneered modular battery packs that could be replaced in stages, and in less than half an hour, thus mitigating the cost factor.

But in any event we could be as close as a few months away from ADVANCED Lithium ion technology entering mass production, which is touted as offering 25-30% more capacity in the same volume, and twice the life span of basic lithium ion technology.

Ford just demonstrated an all-electric F150 that could pull 10 fully loaded railroad autoracks -- 1.25 MILLION pounds! -- for a quarter of a mile. Can your diesel or internal combustion model do that?

Volkswagen AG and several other companies are rolling out supercharger networks in Europe, China, and North America that can charge your battery 80-85% capacity in as little as 12 minutes.

If you blink your eyes, the technology changes. In five short years, the mobile phone industry went from Motorola "Bricks" to the iPhone. Ten years ago, would you have imagined that you'd be carrying a computer more powerful than the one you were using then in your pocket today?
 

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All good points. Future advancement in battery technology ... a focus I recommended to Verizon Wireless as a mgt. consultant in the mid 90's.

Still skeptical, ecological, fuel costs of recharge power, battery life, etc. Compare that to current, in production internal combustion advances. If all the gas cars were the size and shape of the electrics, gas consumption would be cut in half.

In the end, electrical storage will be the winner. But it may be a century, or more, away.

As the late, great, Rodney said; "I had it rough when I was a kid, I tell ya'. For Christmas I got batteries ... toys not included."
 

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I really hope they do figure out the battery issue, and I'm sure they will....again, up here in the great white north, where temps can be below freezing for half the year, battery power in a vehicle will get eaten up real fast....

We already plug our conventional cars in when the temps are minus 25, but just to power the block heaters.....
 

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Ford just demonstrated an all-electric F150 that could pull 10 fully loaded railroad autoracks -- 1.25 MILLION pounds! -- for a quarter of a mile. Can your diesel or internal combustion model do that?
No, but the Ford F150 we use to haul train collections last February covered 500 miles, at minus 38 C, pulling a 12 ft trailer loaded to the roof with O gauge trains, and did it in 7.5 hrs.....including two 10 minute fuel-up stops.....

Existing electric vehicles can't do that yet.....
 

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You're comparing a very mature product to a new arrival. The ICE vehicle has 100 years of production experience and infrastructure development behind it. EV's have maybe a tenth of that, many of the same criticisms currently being applied to EV's were applied to ICE vehicles 90 years ago. Give the technology a chance. In ten years, EV's will have caught up.
 

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I was merely doing what you were doing.....which was comparing the two types of vehicles.....

And I have stated that I think they will eventually get there with battery power, so we're really on the same page.....
 

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I was merely doing what you were doing.....which was comparing the two types of vehicles.....

And I have stated that I think they will eventually get there with battery power, so we're really on the same page.....
That was as much in response to Millstone Mike as you. I should have said "You guys..."

I read an interesting article this morning. Loup Ventures, a venture capital company specializing in high tech companies, completed a "total cost of ownership" study comparing the Tesla Model 3, Audi A5, and Toyota Camry. You purchase the vehicle, finance the purchase over 5 years, drive 15,000 miles a year, perform all required service, and sell it at the 5 year point. The Tesla was actually the cheapest of the 3 by about $1200, although that factors in a significantly higher resale value for the Tesla. The Tesla lost half of its value over that time, the Toyota 2/3s. I suspect that the resale value of the Tesla will fall over time as more become available... but then, so will the sales price. Still, given that the Tesla's purchase price is 55% higher than the Toyota, and contains performance and comfort options more comparable to the Audi, that's pretty good. The study also ignored any tax incentives for the Tesla, since these are being phased out.
 

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Lets hope that Technology can come up with something better than Lithium batteries. Otherwise we are just trading one environmental disaster for another.

The spiralling environmental cost of our lithium battery addiction
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lithium-batteries-environment-impact

Here’s a thoroughly modern riddle: what links the battery in your smartphone with a dead yak floating down a Tibetan river? The answer is lithium – the reactive alkali metal that powers our phones, tablets, laptops and electric cars.

In May 2016, hundreds of protestors threw dead fish onto the streets of Tagong, a town on the eastern edge of the Tibetan plateau. They had plucked them from the waters of the Liqi river, where a toxic chemical leak from the Ganzizhou Rongda Lithium mine had wreaked havoc with the local ecosystem.

There are pictures of masses of dead fish on the surface of the stream. Some eyewitnesses reported seeing cow and yak carcasses floating downstream, dead from drinking contaminated water. It was the third such incident in the space of seven years in an area which has seen a sharp rise in mining activity, including operations run by BYD, the world’ biggest supplier of lithium-ion batteries for smartphones and electric cars. After the second incident, in 2013, officials closed the mine, but when it reopened in April 2016, the fish started dying again.
 

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One of the laws of physics says that for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. That seems to hold true for the environment also.
 
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