[peterbilt379]

I have a 1951 F3 Santa Fe AA screen tops. I decided to finally change the rollers. The original collector assy is Part # 622-134 with the larger tapered rollers #622-138. I bought assy #2023-34 with the smaller rollers than run on a pin. Thinking that was a better idea to run on a pin. It ran alright but the rollers got to hot to touch. So I put the old assy back on and replaced just the tapered rollers # 622-138. ! Runs like a top and the rollers just get warm to the touch. My question is why did Lionel change the roller style? Why would the older style rollers run so much cooler that the ones that run on a pin? Is there any advantage or disadvantge to the different roller size? Anyone have any thoughts on this? Just curious... RW

 

[sjm9911]

While not good at the electrical side of this, i would say the one on the pin was moving around too much causing it to arch more. Thus heating up more. You may have been able to fix it by ajusting it to have more tension with the rails. Unless they were not milled great and there was too much wobble in the middle. Just a guess ,i could be compleatly wrong.

 

[callmeIshmael2]

SJM probably covered it, but I can't help wondering if the difference in heat might be the reason the wider rollers were used on the early F units? They're double-motored, whereeas the #2023 assemblies are for single-motored units, which I think is correct? I'm curious, too as to the difference.

 

[peterbilt379]

I tried the #2343-40 collector assy also. The pins were solid and didnt move around. Plenty of tension on the arms also. Its also the narrower rollers on a pin. Had the same results with the hot rollers. Seems like that part would be made for the santa fe. I wonder if maybe the bigger solid rollers disapate the heat better. My F3 surely runs better with the original 622-134 assy.

 

[peterbilt379]

I was hoping GRJ or T-man or Mike would jump in here and add their expert opinion.

 

[gunrunnerjohn]

This is the vintage that I let T-Man jump in on, he's the post-war guy.

 

[T-Man]

I was never much into temperature of rollers. High temperature is resistance. Resistance in rollers is corrosion on the pins. My check is to ensure the rollers roll on the pins. New replacements can be solid and pin less with just the ends to connect to the bracket.
I do want the roller to spin freely and start with oil and finger power to flush out rust. Then on the track I just run it. Run it and run it. At this point I look for sparks and expect them to disappear. On F-3s you are driving two motors so the larger roller help in heat dissipation. Another reason you may not like is your motors need attention and are requiring more current to run over a high friction. Again I stress a clean motor that spins freely. Also the motors may not be matched and are working against each other. To me the best indication of a good motor is a low voltage startup speed and a lower throttle to maintain a speed.

As you know I run the lower end models. If it runs on my track it will run on anybody's. My F3 I went to one motor a 2333 SF. One motor was missing something and as a pair they made a lot of noise. Lately I have been thinking of replacing everything to those motors and see if I can get them working together.

If the heat is persistent on the roller I would consider replacing it. Some older ones have this beat up look to them. A wire brush cannot get them clean. A prime candidate for replacement.

Make sure you do not have excessive heat on the motor fields. A bad indication the motor is on the way out.

If you want more I will have to check on the rollers on my F-3 and 2023.

 

[peterbilt379]

T-Man. I think your right about heat dissipation with the larger /solid rollers. The two other assy are brand new old stock. Pulled the rollers on each and the pins look brand new and spin freely. My start up voltage is 4.6V. Each motor starts at the same voltage. Pulling a "B" unit a dummy and a mix of 9 PW presidential/congressional passenger cars at 14V it pulls 3.8A - 4A I dont think thats too bad? The motor fields just get wam. The 622-134 assy rollers barely get warm. Big difference in performance. Maybe when lionel went with the vertical motors in '55 they started using the smaller roller assy? They must use less current than the horizontal motors. Just a guess. Thanks for all the replies.

 

[peterbilt379]

After re-reading my last post I thought I'd better revise it. I replaced all the #57 bulbs with LED's.. I put one in the "B" unit also. Total bulbs in the 9 car train is 23. If all were #57 bulbs with a .24A rating they would pull app 5.5A or 77W @ 14V. Instead the LED's have only a .018A rating @ for a total of only .414A or [email protected] Saving a total of 5.1A @ 71W!! Taking out the amps the LED's pull , then the F3 is only drawing the stated 3.6-4 A or 50W. Personally I think that just about perfect! I just thought I'd better clarify the LED's before someone said "this guy is full of BS" !! LOL

 

[Millstonemike]

... then the F3 is only drawing the stated 3.6-4 A or 50W. Personally I think that just about perfect! ...

Drawing 50W pulling a long consist? By themselves, that seems like an awful lot.

 

[gunrunnerjohn]

I'd also hesitate to call 3-4 amps for a single dual-motored locomotive. I think your motors need lube and service if you are exceeding three amps with that load.