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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Renovated my original 1953 027 train set and caught the bug. Upgrading to a modern setup to share with the grandkids!

Traditional & Lionchief Plus control ONLY. Layout consists of 2 trains support, 10 Ross switches (DZ-2500 & Breakout Bds), 2 blocks. 7x9 uses only space available.

Sooo.. layout control is via Lionel WiFi and 2 CSM2 Modules. Available instructions and accuracy from Lionel has proven less than helpful.

Layout is up and working. Ipad LCS App Layout control mostly works. I used the IPad Icab app to setup the DZ-2500 addresses. Seems (per Z-Stuff instructions) if you put a DZ-2500 in program mode and then send the desired command to the address the DZ-2500 eventually accepts it. Great.

On to the CSM2 which were not detected in any application (LCSapp, ICab, etc) I tried. The manual was kind enough to explain how to program these with a Lionel Remote Controller. What is it about "compatible with traditional or other train controls" the tech writer didn't understand.

Okay so I download the Lionel unsupported Window LCS LE software. And even though it thinks I am running two STM2s and 2 BPC2s I was able to set the CSM2 IDs to 11 & 21 for the switches and 11 & 21 for block control.

Now I'm stuck. I have to change the polarity (direction) of 4 of the 10 switches to get the Layout 100%. And yes I could just reverse the sense wires on those breakout boards BUT there a several Block Control options that need to be set in the CSM2 also.

So far numerous calls to Lionel and I have been unable to get thru the customer service triage process to someone who knows something.

Anyone know how I can or what software I need to Program these Aux 1/2 etc settings on the CSM2s without a Set button???

Any help would be appreciate.

Thanks in advance /bob
 

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Being that you have the Wifi module and an ipad running LCS app, well I thought you could do it from there, and then I see this comment:
Hint: Make sure you can control your track power blocks from your Lionel CAB remote before you try to run them from LCS App.
So yes, much of the entire LCS system was centered around you already having a remote and using that to setup and program the devices initially, and then LCS just uses that existing programmed ID.

So then I thought well heck, surely the iCab app has a set button and went to look up the manual and fail http://www.lionel.com/lcs/resources/

Sorry, I know I am very little help, I'll try later and see if I can do this from apps only later today. But yes, having a remote makes setup of a system a lot easier and that was how the manuals expected you to initially program the system- then implement LCS after it was working.
 

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Again, sorry, we are entering a new era of remotes and bases not being available. I have no experience trying to setup LCS modules in standalone without a base and remote. I know much of the documentation said it was possible and there is the no base option on the wifi module, but again, the practical and instructions standpoint, they sadly just did not test or plan this out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks Jetguy. I can't believe that there isn't some software or app out there that can send and set these parameters. The Windows LCS LE can do it. It just isn't obvious to me how to send anything other than a TMCC id using the configuration update button. Also having trouble accepting that LCS has been around this long without running into this. Here's hoping someone in Lionel engineering or product management gets back to me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Lionel's 'Talk to US' support line response from the production team.....

"Good afternoon,
This is the response from the production team:
You need to have a command base. What did he install the wifi adapter to? It sounds like what this guy really needs is a Base 3 – he can then connect his LCS modules to that and control trains through their own remotes, etc. Given that he wants to run LC and Bluetooth too, he’s definitely better off waiting until these arrive towards the end of the year instead of paying high secondary market prices for a 990 set now."

It seems production is not aware that the wifi board has a switch and instructions for selecting NO BASE!!!!! I sure there is a way of loading the remaining CSM2 setting using the Windows & Icab software or some other development software that engineering has. How to I get thru? My response to the support line is Lionel is responsible for providing anything needed to make this no-base LCS work as specified and it's needed now!

Good grief
Bob (a retired BSEE)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
John The DZ-2500 has it right. You put one into program mode then address all using the IPad Icab app via Wifi with a desired TMCC ID. Hit the straight icon a few times and the DZ-2500 programs itself to the code you are addressing. No set command is needed!!!! If you check the DZ-2500 instruction sheet it actually says you can do it without a set key which the Icab app doesn't have. You then push the button on that Dz-2500 to take it out of program mode.
Programming the CSM2 per the manual gives instruction using a Lionel Remote Control providing the TMCC command and a Set button to store the setting in the module. Something I obviously do not have running No Base operation.
I found a Windows LCS LE app at Lionel that can update and monitor the modules commands on Wifi. I used it to force the TMCC id onto the CSM2 modules using its update configuration button (like Set). It does only identify them as two STM2 & BPM2 modules obviously never updated for CSM2.
I now need to set the remaining Block parameters and correct a couple of sense line defaults. I suppose for the 4 incorrect sense lines I could use the incorrect CSM2 defaults and just move the wires for green terminal to yellow but that only solves half the problem. The Window LE program may be able to do it but it isn't obvious to me how to get it done.
Very difficult to get to a technical person at Lionel. Been trying for a week.
Regards
Bob
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
John just a small 7x9 project no where near your effort. Mainly to share with grandkids that is why the Lionchief remotes are so practical.
Wood Table Rectangle Hardwood Composite material

Electricity Electrical wiring Electronic instrument Audio equipment Gas

Wood Electrical wiring Gas Bicycle accessory Machine
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
John see picture. I can trigger them using the Ipad LCS application or the Ipad Icab application. Touch the switch on the Ipad and it moves to the opposite position and the color changes. A derailment event causes the switch display on the Ipad to show the new switch direction.

The Wifi data line is routed thru each CSM2 module. Data is passed from the Application on the Ipad thru the wifi into CSM2#1 then out of CSM#1 to CSM#2

CSM#1 is set for switch #11-16 and CSM#2 is set for switch #21-24. Sense lines on both CSM2s are connected appropriately to the 10 DZ switches.

PS in terms of setup using an STM2 or a BPM2 would not make a difference from a setup perspective. There manuals BOTH specify using the Lionel Remote Controller SET button.
I cannot find any directions on how to configure the addon LCS modules in a No Base layout without Legacy/TMCC control present. Hard to believe...

Does that clarify it??

Bob
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Screenshot of Lionel Windows LCS LE program I used to set TMMC IDs on both CSM2 modules..

Making progress on the control. Have used the TMCC tab to send commands and Set.
Also appears that the 7 sense lines into each CSM2 can be set to a True or Out polarity but it controls the entire set. Could not find an override for each line so back to hardware on that one. Would really have been nice to have an overview manual for this app!

Rectangle Font Screenshot Parallel Software
 

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Screenshot of Lionel Windows LCS LE program I used to set TMMC IDs on both CSM2 modules..

Making progress on the control. Have used the TMCC tab to send commands and Set.
Also appears that the 7 sense lines into each CSM2 can be set to a True or Out polarity but it controls the entire set. Could not find an override for each line so back to hardware on that one. Would really have been nice to have an overview manual for this app!

View attachment 579729
I sent you a message with some LCS help resources.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I sent you a message with some LCS help resources.
As noted Keith thank you very much!

Update to all: have made progress. With the help of Z-stuff/Dennis we found a problem with one of the DZ-2500 which is on it way back to him. It was in sense slot 4 in the CSM2 which was also affecting slots 5 & 6. I believe we are past the switch issues and I am (by trial and error) learning to create all the Lionel Remote Function TMCC activities via the Windows program. It's a life save. Don't even attempt a no-base configuration without it!
For those who care, per Dennis's help to me, if something looks flakey with the CSM2 Sense lines check each Breakout board/DZ-2500 that the yellow and green wires are +5 and +1 given a few thousands. Anything abnormal can indicate a problem.

Later
Bob
 
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