[tbarber1027]

How accurate to the prototype should I expect model trains to be?
I recently ordered a new locomotive (a Bachmann model # 63563). After doing a little research on the model number (EMD GP40) within seconds I found a WHOLE LOT OF INFO on the prototype loco. It seems that the manufacturer (Bachmann) used the wrong locomotive prototype number for their model (#63563).
For the RR named Sante Fe, the locomotive model used was an EMD "GP 39-2" not "GP40" as described in the Bachmann catalog.
Should I ask Bachmann to make the correction?

 

[prrfan]

Not really sure what you’re asking here. The 63563 is the Bachmann stock #. That’s a Santa Fe GP 40 with road number 3808.
Are you saying that the prototype Santa Fe 3808 was actually a GP39-2? If so, then you need to realize that you are buying a model of a GP40 with that number, not an exact replica of Santa Fe 3808.
Sorry if I’ve misunderstood your question.

 

[GNfan]

ATSF 3808 wasn't a GP39-2 but a GP40X. Maybe he's annoyed that the model is of a "stock" GP40 but the number Bachmann gave it was of a pre-production model - there were only 23 of the things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_GP40X

 

[gregc]

it's not surprising that models are not very accurate for specific railroads considering that steam locomotives were often unique to a single railroad but models were sold with various railroad names. The believe the Rivarossi 2-8-8-2 was a model of the N&W Y6b but also sold with Pennsylvania name and Mantua sold camelback locos with AT&SF.

 

[prrfan]

ATSF 3808 wasn't a GP39-2 but a GP40X. Maybe he's annoyed that the model is of a "stock" GP40 but the number Bachmann gave it was of a pre-production model - there were only 23 of the things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_GP40X

Could be. If that level of prototypical accuracy is required, then Bachmann is probably not the brand for that.

There is a company called Scaletrains which has a line called ‘Rivet Counter.’
I don’t know if they have that exact model but one thing I am sure of: the price point will be considerably higher than Bachmann.

 

[gunrunnerjohn]

How accurate to the prototype should I expect model trains to be?

How much money do you have? If you spend thousands on a brass model, you can get pretty close.

 

[D&J Railroad]

I would think Bachmann is hardly the model to expect any simalance to any prototype. Heck, I think that just putting the 4 wheel trucks on a GP unit is considered prototypically accurate for them.

 

[wvgca]

the more you pay, the more accurate to the prototype you can expect it to be ... in plastic not so much, in expensive brass more accurate

 

[MichaelE]

Most locomotives and rolling stock offered by European companies is extremely detailed and very correct to the prototype. They are a bit fanatical about that sort of thing across the Pond. Right down to how my vents are on a grill plate, position of hoses, horns, and even the window trim and door latch hardware.

If you compare photos of the prototypes to the models they represent you won't find any discrepancies.

You can expect to pay a premium for that fanaticism too, but they are true to the prototype. They wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Old_Hobo]

You want accurate prototype (HO) models?

One word.....Rapido.....

 

[Eilif]

the more you pay, the more accurate to the prototype you can expect it to be ... in plastic not so much, in expensive brass more accurate

This is my experience as well. For a base-level plastic model by Bachman, you'll usually find that the roads are correct and the numbers and liveries are near-correct. However, you won't find unique prototype details (Filters, dynamic brakes, etc) for a certain model. I'm not surprised that the basic level Bachman line equated a GP40 and GP40X (which I think has different trucks), though it would have made more sense to simply number it for a proper GP40.

I have a personal suspicion that companies sometimes deliberately make small mistakes like these on their lower-end locos to "encourage" folks to pay more for more prototypical models.

The good news for you is that GP40's in that livery are fairly common so it wouldn't be difficult to renumber it for a prototype that would be a near-perfect match.

These sort of discrepancies bother me not a whit, but for 5-7 times as much one can certainly acquire locomotives that are near-photographic in prototypical accuracy.

 

[Eilif]

One minor point in Bachman's favor. Despite my skepticism above, I do think that much of the time they do try their best to get things as right as possible within the range of what they have on hand. I have a GP35 Frisco 726. It's still a basic-level model but they did get the paint and model right and they put on the correct ALCO trucks that that particular numbered loco had. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know whether the finer details are correct but they seemed to do a pretty good job on that one.

Interestingly I have two "train set" UP Bachman GP40s. They are surprisingly nice runners and on those they were nice enough to leave them un-numbered so there's a pretty good chance I can find a near-exact match and number them accurately myself.

 

[Panther]

Correct me if I'm wrong here.
Doesn't the term Prototype, indicate it was a proposed design of a PRE-PRODUCTION model.
The finished product may not appear the same as the prototype. Kind of a design variation as of yet not finalized ?

Dan

 

[Eilif]

Correct me if I'm wrong here.
Doesn't the term Prototype, indicate it was a proposed design of a PRE-PRODUCTION model.
The finished product may not appear the same as the prototype. Kind of a design variation as of yet not finalized ?

Dan

I could be misusing the term, but in model railroading I usually use prototype to designate a specific subject that a model is based on.

So, someone might look at a model and ask if it represents a "Specific prototype". They aren't referring to pre-production source, rather, they are asking if it accurately reflects a specific real-world example.

 

[GNfan]

Look at it this way: this is also a Bachmann product - a high short hood ATSF GP50 in a sort-of Warbonnet paint scheme numbered 8759. The real ATSF 8759 is a U36C!

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/275460/

 

[D&J Railroad]

I think the real point here is: Bachman makes truely toy trains for the kiddies to play with, running them into stuff on the track, sliding them on the hard floors, out in the sand box and thrown in the toy box with the other toy cars and airplanes. No sense in putting a lot of delicate detail on them that would be easy to break off when operated as a race train.
On the other hand, they are someone's first step into the hobby where their minds eye fills in the details of the long heavy freight trains laboring through the long sweeping curves of the great mid west.

 

[prrfan]

I think the real point here is: Bachman makes truely toy trains for the kiddies to play with, running them into stuff on the track, sliding them on the hard floors, out in the sand box and thrown in the toy box with the other toy cars and airplanes. No sense in putting a lot of delicate detail on them that would be easy to break off when operated as a race train.
On the other hand, they are someone's first step into the hobby where their minds eye fills in the details of the long heavy freight trains laboring through the long sweeping curves of the great mid west.

You’re describing the old Bachmann. The new Bachmann is very much different. Much higher quality, good running and decently detailed. ( Ok, maybe not to the level the OP desires.).
Difference between old and new- night and day. New meaning last 10 or so years ?

 

[CTValleyRR]

The general trend among locomotive manufacturers is that they will offer several lines, each progressively more detailed and accurate. You'll want to stick to the higher end models. Bachmann stuff is fair to middlin' in it's detail. Rapido, Walthers Proto, BLI Paragon, Athearn Genesis, Atlas Master, and Scale Trains Rivet Counter are the higher end models in injection molded plastic. Expect to pay about $350 to $500 w/ DCC and Sound. Or yes, there's always brass, if you can afford locos that cost $1000 each or more.

You can also buy lower end locos and make small modifications and detail parts yourself to make it just right.

 

[mesenteria]

Correct me if I'm wrong here.
Doesn't the term Prototype, indicate it was a proposed design of a PRE-PRODUCTION model.
The finished product may not appear the same as the prototype. Kind of a design variation as of yet not finalized ?

Dan

It's a fair question, but the term can mean both the first of a kind, including experimental designs, AND the typical example of something. In our hobby, we use it to denote the latter, except of the real world rail equipment.

 

[mesenteria]

How accurate to the prototype should I expect model trains to be?
...

As a general rule, not much. First, they're toys, no matter how much we spend on them. True, the more costly they retail for, the more generally true-to-type you should expect them to be.

Until perhaps eight years ago, a bit more, the train model lines were: 'toy set for under the Christmas tree', 'a good first set', and 'better models for enthusiasts and so-called 'serious' modellers.

That last group was broken down into premier plastic or zamac (called 'diecast metal'), hybrids, and all-brass, with the prices rising almost at an exponential rate.

Brass models and BLI's hybrids are advertised and sold as a specific type of locomotive, usually with some minor alternatives for 'as delivered', and 'post-war', and other caveats. They can be expected to be very close to the original prototypes. The other plastic offerings, Bachmann, BLI, MTH, Athearn, and others, all have lesser degrees of realism in added details and moldings, but their costs rise as the realism rises, and there's a lot of variability.

It helps a bit as the scales change as well. People expect more, and to see it, in O scale, whereas the affordable stuff in G tends to be almost toy-like and lacking in details.

Luckily, the healthy trend over the past 12 years has been to improve them, so that's a good thing. Mind you, the prices are rising as well.