Model Train Forum banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
guys and gals

I asked that question on the OGR forums yesterday and got a good reply from Gunrunner John and he explained to me how to do that. He is a very clever guy !!. later on that day OGR DELETED my post about that so i am tired of them doing that , I think it was Rich so I am stay in this forums from now on ( lot of good guys left OGR too). I am looking for some pictures of the connection which would help a lot. Love to hear from others if they done the same.

God will save you from hidden dangers and from deadly diseases. Psalms 91:3 ERV (Easy to Read version) Put your trust in Him folks !!!

Tiffany, Widowed, Sept 15 2019
 

·
Admin
Joined
·
45,131 Posts
It's certainly odd they deleted the post, I don't remember anything that should have triggered that action!

I don't have pictures, but it's very easy to do.

Connect the red and black binding posts of the DCS Remote Commander (DCS-RC) directly to the track.
Connect the transformer directly to the track.
Place DCS locomotive on the tracks.
Set transformer throttle to around 18 volts.
Run the locomotive with the DCS-RC controller.
This should work for any PS/2 or PS/3 locomotive.

One point. The locomotive MUST be in factory reset condition for the DCS-RC to recognize it. If it's a newer PS/3 locomotive, it's possible to do a factory reset with the DCS-RC. If it's an earlier PS/3 or a PS/2 locomotive, the factory reset must be done with a full DCS system.

PS/3 locomotives manufactured in the last few years can be reset using this procedure with the DCS-RC. Here's the reset procedure for the DCS-RC.

Turn off power if on
Wait 15 seconds
Turn on power: the engine should be dark and quiet
Press no other buttons
Press SND
Press DIR
Press "-" (on the gray rocker in the center of the remote. Also is the speed down button.)
The engine will give a two honk response and will be sitting on the track running

The engine has now been factory reset, and is ready to run with your DCS Remote Commander system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
It's certainly odd they deleted the post, I don't remember anything that should have triggered that action!

I don't have pictures, but it's very easy to do.

Connect the red and black binding posts of the DCS Remote Commander (DCS-RC) directly to the track.
Connect the transformer directly to the track.
Place DCS locomotive on the tracks.
Set transformer throttle to around 18 volts.
Run the locomotive with the DCS-RC controller.
This should work for any PS/2 or PS/3 locomotive.

One point. The locomotive MUST be in factory reset condition for the DCS-RC to recognize it. If it's a newer PS/3 locomotive, it's possible to do a factory reset with the DCS-RC. If it's an earlier PS/3 or a PS/2 locomotive, the factory reset must be done with a full DCS system.

PS/3 locomotives manufactured in the last few years can be reset using this procedure with the DCS-RC. Here's the reset procedure for the DCS-RC.

Turn off power if on
Wait 15 seconds
Turn on power: the engine should be dark and quiet
Press no other buttons
Press SND
Press DIR
Press "-" (on the gray rocker in the center of the remote. Also is the speed down button.)
The engine will give a two honk response and will be sitting on the track running

The engine has now been factory reset, and is ready to run with your DCS Remote Commander system.
Hello Gunrunnerjohn

Received my remote commander # 50-1033 today (2/15/2021) from Mr. Muffin's and wondering do i have to do a factory reset ? My Railking Challenger PS3 # 30-1724-1 i bought it new back in Dec 2018 from Trainworld/trainland in NY and i have been running it on conventional control using a Z4000 like the old days. It has the later model wireless drawbar with the big screw on top so that is good news and have no problems with it so far. Wondering if i can hook it up on fixed 14 volt post of the Z4000 (transformer to track and then track to the RC ? I have just one Railking PS3 engine that is the Challenger so this remote will do me well. I been looking for a black square plastic drawbar holder like it s shown on the Challenger Manual page 6. I think the Imperial Challenger is a lovely engine. How have you been lately ?

"God says "Be calm and learn that I am God! I will be praised among the nations, glorified on Earth!" Psalms 46:10 ERV (easy to read version)
Tiffany Clark (widowed Sept 15 2019)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
Hello Gunrunnerjohn

Received my remote commander # 50-1033 today .....wondering do i have to do a factory reset ?
Well, let's define required? If it works and you can run the train, then no, not required. If your train just sits there, dark and silent and no response from the remote/DCS commander, then yes, you need to perform a factory reset using the bell and whistle commands from the Z4K or hope and pray as pointed out, that the engine firmware responds to the DCS commander reset sequence and resets that way. It really is this simple. The DCS commander ONLY sends out to the default ID of 1. If your train is programmed to any DCS system and has a different address, you then need to reset to factory default in order for the engine to "listen" for ID1. Again, being a new engine, one would assume (and right there is "the problem" - assumption) that it's already at factory defaults. The problem isn't that it's not at factory defaults- no, the bigger problem is the ability to reset it to factory defaults. Again, you hope you could reset it using ONLY the DCS commander, but you need a backup plan B for engines that cannot do that, or other scenarios such that you really need to do a reset. That's why having and knowing how to use a transformer with bell and whistle buttons is an unsaid requirement for MTH PS2 and 3 engines.

You are in a good place because you have an MTH transformer on hand capable of correctly sending the short DC offsets for bell and whistle such that you can time your button presses and actually reset the typical engine. The problem I see all the time and was a major issue for me when I first started and got MTH PS3 engines was that I had DCS at home, the club didn't yet have DCS and used Lionel GW180 transformers or CW80 transformers at the train shop test track. So when I took and programmed a PS3 engine at home and took it to the club, I found it would not run under conventional. I knew I needed to do reset, but with many other transformers, it's near impossible to get the short timed bell and whistle commands in the sequence needed for the MTH engine to recognize the command sequence VS normal bell and whistle blows by the user. Again, it's not the fault of the engine, it's that some transformers use a microcontroller and the triacs or other circuitry to generate the DC bell and whistle/horn offsets and there is a timing delay and minimum time limit so it's really, really, really hard to send the reset command or even other sequences of bell and whistle to mth engines and have them recognize it. Again, what I see all the time is a user buys an MTH engine. They then also have a non-MTH transformer and cannot reliably send a reset command if their life depended on it. Eventually they get stuck into a state where the engine needs a reset, they don't have full blown DCS, they don't have a transformer that allows them to perform a reset, and they come to me or a forum and beg for help.

What I'm getting at is spreading the word. If you have an MTH engine, but not a known transformer that is capable of sending the short pulses required to signal a conventional bell and whistle reset sequence, then you put yourself at a risk for the one day you need a reset and will spend hours pressing the bell and whistle buttons in vain to attempt to reset an engine. You don't have this problem, you have a good known transformer, but say you go to a club or a friends house- something to keep in the back of your head.
 

·
Admin
Joined
·
45,131 Posts
Well, let's define required? If it works and you can run the train, then no, not required. If your train just sits there, dark and silent and no response from the remote/DCS commander, then yes, you need to perform a factory reset using the bell and whistle commands from the Z4K or hope and pray as pointed out, that the engine firmware responds to the DCS commander reset sequence and rests that way.
That would be incorrect, the "factory reset" that is required for the DCS-RC to operate is NOT the conventional reset done with a transformer. The reset required for 2014 and newer PS/3 locomotive by the DCS-RC is done using the following procedure.

- Turn off power if on

- Wait 15 seconds
- Turn on power: the engine should be dark and quiet
- Press no other buttons
- Press SND
- Press DIR
- Press "-" (on the gray rocker in the center of the remote. Also is the speed down button.)

The engine will give a two honk response and will be sitting on the track running

The engine has now been factory reset, and is ready to run with your DCS Remote Commander system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
That would be incorrect, the "factory reset" that is required for the DCS-RC to operate is NOT the conventional reset done with a transformer. The reset required for 2014 and newer PS/3 locomotive by the DCS-RC is done using the following procedure.

- Turn off power if on

- Wait 15 seconds
- Turn on power: the engine should be dark and quiet
- Press no other buttons
- Press SND
- Press DIR
- Press "-" (on the gray rocker in the center of the remote. Also is the speed down button.)

The engine will give a two honk response and will be sitting on the track running

The engine has now been factory reset, and is ready to run with your DCS Remote Commander system.
Thanks for the correction, again, I still find it problematic, a user buys an engine, doesn't have DCS or a transformer capable of certain reset sequences, and then gets stuck.
Part of the reason why a user might find the DCS-RC limiting or frustrating. It doesn't work with PS2 5V engines, it can't reset all engines to work with them, you can be in a state where you ONLY have a DCS-RC and an MTH engine, and not be able to run it, no way to reset it given the hardware on hand. I mean being honest, we can't get people to read the instructions for the DCS-RC in the first place that states these known circumstances, and then having a user know what they have on hand for an engine? How many topics to we get about BCR or just battery replacement and the user has no clue if they have a 3V or 5V engine and completely clueless how to tell? So these same customers don't want to fork out the $$ for full blown DCS or a DCS explorer, instead try to save a buck and buy only the DCS-RC and a power brick, and then wonder why the new engine they bought later don't work while the one engine they started with does.

Again this is a classic situation, I understand a user wants to save money. They buy an engine and then want DCS but see the prices for a DCS Explorer or full blown TIU and WIU and see a DCS-RC and find it attractive. They don't know much, they are just starting and their first experience with MTH trains is they can't run it and don't understand all these reset sequences or don't have the equipment and thus ability to reset it, or worse, have an engine known to be incompatible.

I cannot recommend the DCS-RC to a user as the only or first control system they buy unless they understand the very limited set of cases where it "works well", such as a known compatible PS3 engine and they never intend to buy any older engines. Just my opinion. Once again, the bucket of things I wish I had told to me when I first started.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
Connect the red and black binding posts of the DCS Remote Commander (DCS-RC) directly to the track.
Connect the transformer directly to the track.

I'm just asking for my own knowledge, that is basically passive mode operation (transformer and DCS signal source in parallel to the track)?
Since it's passive mode, we are bypassing the internal inductor on the input from the transformer (the input jack of the DCS-RC) and thus directly connecting Z4K to the track without an inductor in series potentially reduce the track signal from the DCS-RC? I'm not trying to be difficult, just trying to flush out the scenario. It's recommended to use an inductor when running a TIU in passive, I would assume the same advice of using an inductor (while complicating the connection of the transformer to the track) is still considered good advice for maximum signal strength for a DCS-RC?

Sorry, I know this might come off as me trying to argue and that's not the case, I'm just trying to make sure I also get this detail right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Hello GRJ and Jetguy

I will set it up and see what happens. I will let you know. I am born deaf so cannot hear the sounds at all and this might be a problem for me in resetting it. I didnt buy the engine for the sounds but bought it because it is cute oh well and seen the real 3985 on many youtube videos and it just blows me away so wanted a Railking version semi-scale Challenger 30-1724-1. I trust Railking trains and they are well made for the given price. I have one other Railking engine and that is a NW-2 switcher # 30-2157-1 but it is PS1 and run really well, it is 22 years old all i did was to install the BCR and no trouble at all. That gave me faith on the Railking trains. I know the 3985 is retired from service i think 2010. I could have bought the lionmaster challenger but at the time it was twice the money. Now the Big Boy 4014 is running today but didnt like the way the Railking Big Boy looks as if the body is raised higher than the Challenger is and for reason so that the BB can go on o-31 and really looks bad doing so. It still looks bad sitting still because of the body that sits higher. I run my Challenger on o-72 and looks pretty good with the lionel traditional size freight cars. The Railking Challenger body sits lower and you can tell by looking at both side by side and the Challenger has more cast on details than the BB is. Just my opinion.

Tiffany Clark (widowed Sept 15 2019)
 

·
Admin
Joined
·
45,131 Posts
Yes, you can add a 22uh (or greater value) inductor between the transformer and the track for a better DCS signal, obviously the inductor needs to be rated for the full current you'll be passing through it to run the locomotives. Most people don't bother, but then the DCS-RC is typically used on a pretty small configuration. I'm using the DCS-RC boxes to generate watchdog signals for a number of power districts, but they're on the output of the TIU, so there's already the desired inductor in place.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Yes, you can add a 22uh (or greater value) inductor between the transformer and the track for a better DCS signal, obviously the inductor needs to be rated for the full current you'll be passing through it to run the locomotives. Most people don't bother, but then the DCS-RC is typically used on a pretty small configuration. I'm using the DCS-RC boxes to generate watchdog signals for a number of power districts, but they're on the output of the TIU, so there's already the desired inductor in place.
Hello GRJ

I am not sure what you mean by 22uh inductor ? that new one for me.

Tiffany Clark (widowed Sept 15 2019)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Hello Gunrunnerjohn and Jetguy

I set up the whole thing per your plan and the Challenger had to be reset twice then it is working well after that. I been running it for few hours and it is so much fun !!!!!! I never had this much fun in long time until this evening!! John your passive plan worked well and i hook it up to the Z4000's 14 volt fixed post and worked. thank you so much guys but it was God that helped me reset it as i was nervous in screwing it up but not tonight LOL. All this fun made me tired !!!

People throw lots to make decisions. But the decisions always come from God. Proverbs 16:33 ERV (easy to read version)

Tiffany Clark (widowed Sept 15 2019)
 

·
Admin
Joined
·
45,131 Posts
Tiffany, this is a suitable 22uh choke for isolating the DCS signal from the transformer. It just gets connected in series with the center track lead between the transformer and the track/DCS-RC box. I will help with the DCS signal strength, typically giving you a boost of one or possibly two counts on the signal strength measurement.

Würth Elektronik 744750560220

554526
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Tiffany, this is a suitable 22uh choke for isolating the DCS signal from the transformer. It just gets connected in series with the center track lead between the transformer and the track/DCS-RC box. I will help with the DCS signal strength, typically giving you a boost of one or possibly two counts on the signal strength measurement.

Würth Elektronik 744750560220

View attachment 554526
Hello Gunrunnerjohn

ok , I would like to try that if it will help improve the remote commander performance.

The commands and teachings from your parents are like a light that shows you the right way. They correct you and train you to follow the path to life. Proverbs 6:23 ERV (easy to read version)

Tiffany Clark (widowed Sept 15 2019)
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top