Model Train Forum banner

1 - 20 of 54 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,112 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Okay, after ya'll look at the pics, it's okay to tell me that my momma, DID raise a fool:laugh:

This started out as a, "Total Restoration Project" for rainy days. That's why I bought her. She's a 200 series Alco Santa Fe 218. So when the wife's, "Honey Do's" around the exterior of the house and the lawns can't be worked on:)

Supposedly, the engine was shot, as was the e-unit, and horn. The shell does have it's front apron entact. The top horn is shot. The screw hole for securing the body to the frame is all unbroken. She is a, "Dirty, Rusty, Beast!"

But all is not lost..........

Lightly sanded some of the connections, changed a light bulb, and gave her some juice.......Viola! It took a few tries, but she roared to life!! I decided to try a battery for the horn. Yup, you guessed it, we have sound(and better than the horn on my 226!)

The bad news is, I think I need to replace the frame:( It's not battery damage) just plain rust and lots of it! Gimme your thoughts on that and any/all suggestions are welcome!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,666 Posts
Jim,

Hey ... what's the deal with this multitasking stuff? Isn't there a law in most states that says you can't work on a rusty old pre-war steam loco and a rusty old post-war diesel loco at the same time? I'd turn down the lights and draw the blinds closed if I were you!

I'm only judging from your photos, but the mechanics (motor, etc.) don't look too bad to me ... you seem to have gotten things running without too much effort. That leaves the frame, trucks, axles, wheels. Have at 'em with Scotchbrite, Dremel wire brush, etc. and see what you get. My guess is there's some decent metal left in that frame ... now that you're a priming/painting pro ... bada boom ... bada bing ... and "Bob's your Uncle" as they say Down Under.

Oh ... and if anyone comes a-knockin' on my door asking if I have any knowledge or association with what behind-closed-door things are going on down in Virginia, I'll simply deny, deny, deny ...

TJ
 

·
Railroad Tycoon
Joined
·
24,024 Posts
Sand/ epoxy/paint:D

You crazy man!:laugh:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
I think you can strip it down to the frame (May have to drill out some rivets) a good sanding and prime and it will paint up good as new. your going to have fun with the outer paint scheme... pinstripe tape will help mask it out.... and a decal set and you will have one sweet honey cruising your rails
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,112 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
B & M-The kind of sanding she needs will require my, "Power Tool!":)

TJ-"Multi-Tasking?" Nah, just just 8 grandchildren that all want their own engines, and a "Papou(grandad in Greek"", that gives them what they want! And thanks for covering my back:)

Big Ed-There will be, "Rust-A-Flyin" around here for days!:) Epoxy to smooth out the pitting?

Rich-That's todays plan. I'm going to start the "tear-down" process, but not before I make a trip to the local HW store for some Naval Jelly. I want to get as much of the corrosion off as possible before I start sanding.

AM update........
Last night I "bathed" the shell in some warm, soapy, water. What I originally thought was grime covering her, was some sort of clear laquer they used when they replaced the nose decal. As it stands now, she will need to be stripped to the plastic. The good news is, the body is in nice shape for a 53 year old:) Wish I held up this well:D
 

·
Yard Master & Research
Joined
·
10,693 Posts
If you are going to do a lot of this, try to find one of those stone polishng drums. Where you have sand rotating and polishing stone for days. It would work on smaller parts like wheels. All it would take is time. Sort of like having your own sand blaster.:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,112 Posts
Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
I took her apart this morning. The rust pattern is strange. some areas have no rust others are scary!

T-Man, are the 2 Dremel attachments what you mentioned in your reply? One is coarse, the other, finer. I took a wire brush to one set of the wheels, they are pitted and I wonder if they're worth saving(though they'd do okay in a gondola as scrap:D )

Although I'm not crazy about all the sanding, I will try to save the frame, but will continue to look for a replacement. Long term, I think that it would be best. I have the old set of front trucks from my 226, looks like they'll be getting good use:D

I was amazed by the condition of the motor. Aside from some normal dirt and grime, looks to be in great shape. I cleaned the armature. No gauges, and the brushes weren't in bad shape. I sanded(400 grit), cleaned the slots, and sprayed with RS Electronics cleaner.

None of my other alco had shouldered brushes.......:confused:

Here are the pics
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
Although I'm not crazy about all the sanding, I will try to save the frame, but will continue to look for a replacement. Long term, I think that it would be best.
the strange rust pattern may be because the frame wasn't painted, its was blued, like a gun.... and for rust to start it would have had to get under the protective oxide layer. Most metal postwar trucks & wheels seem to have the "Blued" treatment. You can get gun bluing compound at most good camping/outdoor shops that have a hunting department. its a two part processes.... de-grease/clean & Blue... If you do it... wear good gloves.... the de-grease will really dry out your skin, and the blue soaks into skin very well.... also be in a well ventilated area... the fumes from the bluing process are toxic

Try a wire brush on the dremel to get the Oxide off and down to stable metal... then sand as smooth as you can.... then this is where sandable primer comes into its own... Put on a coat and let it dry.... then sand the ruff areas down so that the high spots get to bare metal.... then re-coat... dry... sand..... from what I see it should take at most 3 coats to fill in the pitting.. then a nice top coat... and you will not even know it was rusted...

One thing to remember... when you reattach the mounting hardware and bulb sockets, remember they usually get their ground from the frame and paint is a very poor conductor. I got around this by attaching grounding straps to the brackets and bulb socket and then used a wire lug on the truck attaching screw.... or any other "Good" Ground.... There is a ground lug on the motor that you can use as well.... you can attach the straps before you paint, just remember to remove the rosin residue before you put on any paint.

Sorry if I get too wordy or state the obvious, but someone who doesn't know any of this might find it helpful
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,112 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Rich, I'm appreciative of all the help/suggestions I've received so far:)

I'm not gonna try the, "bluing!" I'm going to go with the wire brush, sand, prime, sand, prime, sand prime!

Do you wash in cool, soapy water & rinse well, between coats of primer, or do you "Wet Sand?"

I guess you can tell that this is my first time with something in such bad condition:laugh:

By the way, the Marx looks real nice with one coat of primer. It went on evenly and there's excellent coverage. Should I sand before painting(not ready yet, haven't decided on colors/scheme?)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,666 Posts
Jim,

Ha ha ... I just had a "chuckle moment" ...

Here you are endeavoring to remove every trace of rust.

And here's this "train artist" referenced in B&M's recent link whose very successful profession is to put it on!

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archiveThumbs.aspx?id=49925

Maybe you should save your rust shavings, put them in a little ziplock bag, and send them off to this guy?

Go figure ...

TJ
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,951 Posts
TJ, excellent pictures.

but for removal of rust, why not just galvanize everything? connect the + terminal of your 12V automotive battery charger to the part and put it into bucket or bowl of water (or salty water). connect a zink plated bolt to negative terminal and but it into the water as well. after 8-24 hours of treatment it will be shiny and never rust again
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
Do you wash in cool, soapy water & rinse well, between coats of primer, or do you "Wet Sand?"

By the way, the Marx looks real nice with one coat of primer. It went on evenly and there's excellent coverage. Should I sand before painting(not ready yet, haven't decided on colors/scheme?)
wet sanding keeps the paper from clogging up with paint dust. 400 & 800 are so fine that the dust would render it useless at best and creating more damage to the primer at worst. But that's only when we are talking the HUGE surfaces in automotive work. Since we are trying to fix rust here, best to avoid adding any more moisture to the situation if we can help it... as far as cleaning up.... Just wipe off the dust with a clean cloth. you can use a little denatured alcohol, but be careful not to soak it on and dissolve the primer.... wear gloves when handling it so you don't get any of the oil from your skin on the surface, as well as protecting them from all the chemicals. Most auto parts shops sell boxes of nice latex work gloves. The ones I use are called "Diamond" something and are blue in color... box of 100 is like $15
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,666 Posts
Anton,

That sounds like a good idea. Much to my dismay, my old college lessons on this are burned into my brain synapses. Have you ever tried something like that? Should work, I'd think. Are you sure about the polarity ... I thought negative to the object being plated (cathode), positive to the anode (plating material)?

I seem to recall that the solution should be somewhat acid ... vinegar should work. Epsom salt in the mix, too. And, there needs to be some zinc disolved in the solution ... so let the zinc bathe for a while.

FYI -- Zinc is available quite cheaply at any marine supply store (used as a sacrificial anode for electrolysis protection on hull bottoms).

TJ
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,112 Posts
Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
When you guys get that, "Galvinizing" ready to go. send me an address and I'll have the frame right to ya!:laugh:

This is the result of 4 hours of sanding/grinding and cursing!:eek:

The rust is deep in a few places, and hopefully the primer/paint, will at least slow down the progress for a while!

Comments/suggestions?

Jim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
The rust is deep in a few places, and hopefully the primer/paint, will at least slow down the progress for a while!
Hit it with primer and put in in a warm place.... let it dry and give it a sanding.... your trying to sand off the primer in the "High & level" areas.... and leave it in the low spots.... then dust it off... and reprime... sand again... and reprime... see if you can still see the pitting... you can repeat this process until you can't see it anymore, or you run out of sandpaper/primer/strength/willpower

you can also have a shot at some Bondo Body putty (auto parts store).... you mix a little with its activator... spread it on like Spackle... let it dry and sand then do primer.... the primer sand method will give you a stronger surface

BTW... to keep an nice crisp edge where the pitting goes over the side of the frame. Wrap the sandpaper around a block of wood and use that to sand in nice square strokes
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,112 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Thanks Rich!

I think tomorrow is for the primer/sand/primer/sand/primer/sand/primer/sand/primer/sand............
 
1 - 20 of 54 Posts
Top