[pdecesare]

Hello,

I am considering adding an expansion to my layout. My existing layout is a U shape, 3 pieces of 4x8 plywood.
I want to add a long "L" shape to the layout on one end.

(The photo attached is NOT my layout, just a random photo I found to illustrate my questions)

I want to use 24" radius turns on the main, but that requires more 48" in width.

My questions are:

1. How do you BUILD a layout wider than 48", like 5 or 6 feet wide? Reach becomes an issue to place track or add landscape (including mountains or simple grass) especially on a the inside corners of an "L" shape layout.

2. How you handle derailments on a 5-6 foot wide layout?

3. In the attached picture how does one "do" anything to the middle of that layout??

I thought of building the new layout in sections, but I can imagine aligning the track from section to section to be very difficult. Any ideas or guidance would be great!!

Thanks - Peter

 

[1905dave]

Best answer is not to do it. When you get up to 6 ft wide it's better to do an "around the walls" or a layout with an open center.

Instead of a huge table (track in red):

Open up the center and make a series of tables around an open center. All the sides are only 18-30 inches wide so everything is within reach.:

It you HAVE to have the monster table, then you will have to cut holes in it in places in order to have a "pop-up" to get in there and do work, add scenery, rerail stuff, etc. You can cover theh pop ups with scenery (not tracks) so they lift out.

As far as making any of these layouts that are more than a 4x8, you will have to cut plywood and build framing to support it.

 

[OilValleyRy]

There’s a few ways to skin this cat (no offense).

The first and most obvious way is to only have the areas that need 90 or 180 turns to be 5 foot wide, the rest being narrower.

Another way to build a 5x8 is what my dad does. Box frame the 4x8, and a 1x8 using 1x4 lumber, and bolt them together.

Third way is to eliminate pre cut sized lumber and use an L girder design.

At Arm’s Reach. So how far you can reach depends on height. It’s a trade off. The closer to eye level it is the more realistic looking things will be, but harder to reach. Put5ing the helicopter tour view aside; for higher design there are a few tricks. Keep track closer to the front edge whenever possible. And keep scenery etc near the back as a “lift off” design.

As for clearing derailments; the only difficult site to clear then would be a large yard. Of course well laid track and well maintained wheels should prevent derailments. Having 0 is of course the goal. If I ever have a derailment to clear at the back of my yard, a step stoll giving me 12” extra height momentarily is my solution. But my goal is to not have any derailments, anywhere.

The portion of my layout currently under construction is 6ft x 18ft. Example photos of the L girder system can be found in my build thread by clicking HERE. Mind you, a great deal of the area out of arms reach on one side will be a gigantic hill. By gigantic I’m estimating around 14 inches deep, 16 inches tall, and 9 to 11 feet long; all lift out.

 

[DonR]

OilValley has the answer. He just didn't label it...MODULAR
construction. Make 1 X 3 frames of various sizes that
will support the design you have in mind..including 5 or
greater widths. Make legs of 2 1X3s screwed together to
form an L. Bolt these in the frame corners. Thin plywood
screwed on the frames as a top. Then bolt the frames together to
match your design. Cover the assembled modules with
a paper covered foam from the craft section of Walmart
or Michaels. Easy to do...easy to change when you want.

Don

 

[mesenteria]

If you would find it expedient to simply add width to a sheet of ply, Place a cleat of 1X4 cut to about 15" long about 10" deep under the main sheet and drive about seven or eight separated screws into the top of the main sheet down into the cleat. Glue wouldn't hurt, either. Then, measure and cut your width slab, place it atop the part of the cleat revealed at the edge of the main sheet, and screw/glue it into place. For reasonable strength, you'd want one of those cleats every foot to 16". And don't ever stand on the addition.

A better solution would be to extend the supports under the plywood out to the width you need, except that there'd have to be one every 14" if using 1/2" ply, about every 20" if using 5/8". This would be a better cantilevered solution, assuming the supporting legs/beams run approximately under the extension seam.

 

[pdecesare]

Thanks for all the input!! Think I'm going to go 52", maybe 54". I may try to narrow the non-turn areas. I'll put some masking tape on the tile floor and see how it all fits before I start cutting lumber.

 

[Gramps]

I have a shelf layout in the garage that's 53" high. At its widest point it is 24" with sidings for industries for switching and reaching over the buildings reduces my ability to reach the track closest to the wall.

 

[MichaelE]

Mine is almost 5' wide at its widest point for 24" radius curves and is 48" high at its lowest point. I have three pop-ups within the layout for track cleaning, scenery arrangment, etc. These are open, but not too noticeable because of the increased elevation.

Sometimes I use a step ladder for track cleaning, sometimes not if it's a quick wipe. I also use a step ladder to reach the upper meter gauge track if working at the Langwiess station area.

The elevation does make for a nice viewing experience.

 

[JeffHurl]

To me, there are 2 types of reach:

1) the reach needed to do longer-term work, like laying track, ballasting, or working on scenery. Scenarios where your reach is long-lasting.
2) the reach you need more short-term, but more frequently, like cleaning track, or clearing a derailment.

For #2, I believe about 30 - 36 inches is about as far as I would want to reach to clean track or clear derailments. I'm 6'2" and my layout is desk height.

When you say you want 24" curves, you will want more than a 48" width. Most curves are measured on their centerline, so the outside diameter may be a few inches wider, depending on the scale, plus, you will need a small buffer zone to catch a derailed train before it falls off the edge.

Most people pot those curves on the ends, where you can reach from 2-3 sides.

Also... I suggest using extruded foam boards rather than plywood. It's a lot lighter, and really simple to work with. It's stiff enough to let overhang the benchwork by a bit, allowing fairly simple ways to make 50" and even 60" widths. having a 60" wide section is fine as long as you can reach from 2 sides.

 

[Browneye]

My 'island' is 6' wide, but there's access on both sides, and all the track is closer to the front of any one place so only scenery and backdrop are at arms length in just a couple of spots. A center divider-backdrop separates the two halves, and the corners are cut off providing more access and ease of moving around it.. The whole layout is in two 'halves' so it can be broken down to move, and the support legs have casters so it's easy to move around in the room itself.

So far it has not been a problem, everything is accessible. Probly wouldn't work for an extended shelf-type track plan.

 

[Steve on Cattail Creek]

Yeah, well, after all the excellent advice already offered (and with which I fully concur), I guess I can act as the horrible example of what not to do!

Specifically, when I upgraded my O scale layout from the 5-1/2 foot by six foot platform I originally built to fit around the annual Christmas tree, I expanded my new layout to the maximum size that would fit in the space available: eight feet by eight feet, with access from all four sides (the photo was taken during the construction and testing of the el loop):

Now, I'm a fairly big guy, 6'3" with a good sized wingspan, and initially everything worked reasonably well: most of the track is near the edges (in fact, at the lower left you can see one of the sets of wire fence and pegs I installed at the outer turns to prevent any more high speed suicide attempts by my rolling stock!). However, working in the center has become much less convenient after I added the full-length tunnel across the back and the el loop above. So, in hindsight I suspect I'd have been much better served by creating a big U-shaped layout along the edges of the available space instead. Coulda-woulda-shoulda . . .

All in all, though, I've had a lot of fun adding on bits and pieces, so when the time comes to replace or drastically modify the current layout, I'll be able to chalk it all off as a learning experience!

 

[traction fan]

Yeah, well, after all the excellent advice already offered (and with which I fully concur), I guess I can act as the horrible example of what not to do!

Specifically, when I upgraded my O scale layout from the 5-1/2 foot by six foot platform I originally built to fit around the annual Christmas tree, I expanded my new layout to the maximum size that would fit in the space available: eight feet by eight feet, with access from all four sides (the photo was taken during the construction and testing of the el loop):

View attachment 596279

Now, I'm a fairly big guy, 6'3" with a good sized wingspan, and initially everything worked reasonably well: most of the track is near the edges (in fact, at the lower left you can see one of the sets of wire fence and pegs I installed at the outer turns to prevent any more high speed suicide attempts by my rolling stock!). However, working in the center has become much less convenient after I added the full-length tunnel across the back and the el loop above. So, in hindsight I suspect I'd have been much better served by creating a big U-shaped layout along the edges of the available space instead. Coulda-woulda-shoulda . . .

All in all, though, I've had a lot of fun adding on bits and pieces, so when the time comes to replace or drastically modify the current layout, I'll be able to chalk it all off as a learning experience!

Steve;

When you say "working in the center" do you mean reaching the center area from the side? Or maybe that black area, in the center, is a removable section covering a duck under access hatch?
A walk-in design is always better than something you have to hang way over, or crawl under. Next time around you might consider an around-the-walls layout with relatively narrow shelves, say three feet deep. That way you'll be able to reach everything with ease, and still have a nice long mainline run. The corners of such an around-the-walls design can be a bit deeper to hold things like your elevated loop. It would also be possible to build a peninsula that projects out at 45 degrees from one of the corners. Just some things to think about.

The file below has four sketches of layouts in various scales, fitted into a small room. Sketch #4 is an around-the-walls affair using O-scale. It points out some concerns about different methods of getting trains across the doorway.

Good Luck & Have Fun with whatever you choose to build next.
Traction Fan 🙂

 

[Steve on Cattail Creek]

Steve;

When you say "working in the center" do you mean reaching the center area from the side? Or maybe that black area, in the center, is a removable section covering a duck under access hatch?
A walk-in design is always better than something you have to hang way over, or crawl under. Next time around you might consider an around-the-walls layout with relatively narrow shelves, say three feet deep. That way you'll be able to reach everything with ease, and still have a nice long mainline run. The corners of such an around-the-walls design can be a bit deeper to hold things like your elevated loop. It would also be possible to build a peninsula that projects out at 45 degrees from one of the corners. Just some things to think about.

The file below has four sketches of layouts in various scales, fitted into a small room. Sketch #4 is an around-the-walls affair using O-scale. It points out some concerns about different methods of getting trains across the doorway.

Good Luck & Have Fun with whatever you choose to build next.
Traction Fan 🙂

Yes, the layout is a true eight feet by eight feet, with no hatches or other type of trick access. And yes, I'm fully aware (now!) of the drawbacks of the design -- the reason for posting was to affirm the wisdom of others' cautions. With that said, I'm still happily muddling forward, and I suspect it will be quite some time before I scrap or drastically alter the current layout. Live and learn . . . but above all, have fun!

 

[traction fan]

Yes, the layout is a true eight feet by eight feet, with no hatches or other type of trick access. And yes, I'm fully aware (now!) of the drawbacks of the design -- the reason for posting was to affirm the wisdom of others' cautions. With that said, I'm still happily muddling forward, and I suspect it will be quite some time before I scrap or drastically alter the current layout. Live and learn . . . but above all, have fun!

Amen.

 

[SF Gal]

I have a pop out "Hatch" in mine for access to the back...no way I could reach that far....
Having said that, I try to use grippers first before I go into the hatch....

Menards carries this Performax® 35" Reach Tool, saved me several times.

 

[Steve on Cattail Creek]

I have a pop out "Hatch" in mine for access to the back...no way I could reach that far....
Having said that, I try to use grippers first before I go into the hatch....

Menards carries this Performax® 35" Reach Tool, saved me several times.

Do you think that would work for ballasting? 😉

 

[CTValleyRR]

Gripper tools like that work for retrieving derailed equipment (although they can be hard on attached details), but they can't be used to do track or scenery work, or to uncouple cars.

 

[Steve on Cattail Creek]

Gripper tools like that work for retrieving derailed equipment (although they can be hard on attached details), but they can't be used to do track or scenery work, or to uncouple cars.

. . . yeah, but I'd watch the video of someone trying to do so! 😳

[- cue "Benny Hill Show" theme music -]