[Randomtask2]

Hello,firstly thank you everyone for all their information with everything. So I have a postwar 682, the linkage going to the car body and wheels was bent, so ordered all the original parts and took it to a shop. They fixed it and got it back, it functions great but grinds and derails the front wheels, has anyone had this issue before. Because the guy who had it prior rigged it with something that wasn't factory Lionel components to make it work. So now I'm worried that his modification was done because it would in fact detail it while it was running. So has anyone dealt with an issue of their 682 linkage hitting the front wheels and derailing them. Thanks for the information guys. Don't know if I should take it back to the shop. Or just try to figure it out because he placed it back to stock.

 

[teledoc]

Is the only thing changed the complete linkage? Have the wheels ever been taken off, and put back on correctly Quartered. Quartering is having one side set of wheels, 90 degrees apart. On the turbines, the left side wheels are 90 degs. ahead of the right side.

 

[Randomtask2]

Is the only thing changed the complete linkage? Have the wheels ever been taken off, and put back on correctly Quartered. Quartering is having one side set of wheels, 90 degrees apart. On the turbines, the left side wheels are 90 degs. ahead of the right side.

I don't know, what exactly this quartering is. Do you have a picture I could see. Or I could take a picture of mine so you could see it, to see how far it's off.

 

[teledoc]

Okay, first off, all the wheels on one side where the side rod linkage are connected should all line up, otherwise the side rod 4 screws won't align right. The same thing goes for the opposite side linkage. I am discounting the extra "oiler linkage" for the time being.

Quartering refers to the wheel position, where the screw hole lines up in relation to a clock face. Look at just one wheel, and if the linkage screw is up top, it is at 12 o'clock position, and if facing forward, it is at 3 o'clock, and so on. Quartering only comes into play when dealing with Steam Engines, with one exception. On the 671/681/682/2020 turbines put the hole on the left side at the 9 o'clock position. The right side holes should be at 12 o'clock. That is exactly how it has to be, NO IFs & or BUTS. That hold for just these S-2 Turbines.

All other Steam loco, have the exact opposite where the right side wheel at 3 o'clock, the left side has to be at 12 o'clock.

The wheel linkage has to be 90 degrees apart, or a quarter of the clock face apart.

 

[teledoc]

Lionel 682 oiler linkage alignment

Randomtask2, Here are a few photos taken from an old auction, that shows how the linkage needs to be placed. It also shows how all the screw holes for the side rod are in perfect alignment. Hopefully you can understand the notes added to the photos.

For anyone that has Lionel Steam engines, the wheels have to be quartered, so that the motor runs smoothly. Use a clock face as a reference, with 12-3-6-9 o'clock as your positions. One side set of linkage has to be 90 degrees apart from the other side. On 99% of Steam engines the right side LEADS THE LEFT SIDE. On the S-2 Turbines (671/681/682/2020 locos), it is the exact opposite, where the LEFT SIDE LEADS THE RIGHT SIDE BY 90 degrees. If they are misaligned, you get wobbling when it goes around the track.

 

[teledoc]

Random, Do you understand what I posted. Also, the 6 wheel truck assemblies have slots shaped like a crescent(curved). If you look at the bottom at the two sets, the curves would look like parentheses.

 

[Randomtask2]

Randomtask2, Here are a few photos taken from an old auction, that shows how the linkage needs to be placed. It also shows how all the screw holes for the side rod are in perfect alignment. Hopefully you can understand the notes added to the photos.
View attachment 174618

View attachment 174626

For anyone that has Lionel Steam engines, the wheels have to be quartered, so that the motor runs smoothly. Use a clock face as a reference, with 12-3-6-9 o'clock as your positions. One side set of linkage has to be 90 degrees apart from the other side. On 99% of Steam engines the right side LEADS THE LEFT SIDE. On the S-2 Turbines (671/681/682/2020 locos), it is the exact opposite, where the LEFT SIDE LEADS THE RIGHT SIDE BY 90 degrees. If they are misaligned, you get wobbling when it goes around the track.

I will review all this information tomorrow, and then show my dad because it's his train. So I really can't thank you enough for all this advice because I really am in need of it. One of these days I will have to give you advice in return.

 

[teledoc]

The majority of the guys here in 0 gauge & tinplate like to help when we can. We all learn something from each other, or know where to get an answer.

NO SWEAT, it's fun fixing stuff yourself, when you can.

 

[Randomtask2]

The majority of the guys here in 0 gauge & tinplate like to help when we can. We all learn something from each other, or know where to get an answer.

NO SWEAT, it's fun fixing stuff yourself, when you can.

OK so I followed the diagram that you gave me, Took linkages off and adjusted it according to what position was on the 682 that was in the picture of in that picture and now the wheels don't even go they lock up. So the way that that 682 is adjusted for mine doesn't work, which leads me to believe that there could be an issue with my 682, if that is the precise specification and it's not working for me.

 

[teledoc]

Randomtask2, I personally do not own a 682, and can only go by previous posts, and looking at photos, with regard to the linkage. I know that that extra set of linkage is quite tricky to get it to work correctly as it should. Have you tried to run the locomotive without the linkage attached, and just leaving the "oiler linkage" hanging from the body. I would be curious if you still get any kind of annoying 'wobble' as you stated from the initial posting. If you can take the side rods off, and run the loco, to see if it still wobbles, it may be something with the wheels/axles and the bushings which are pressed into the frame.

Can you tell me exactly what the Repair guy did, to put it back together. Exactly what parts did he replace?? It may help to know what he did. I will wait for an answer before I say anything else.

 

[teledoc]

There is an apparent problem with Photos at the present time, and some threads won't show the photos that were attached. I went back to your first post with the problem, and wanted to examine the photos, but they don't show up now. Don't know the reason why!!! I wanted to see to compare what I posted, to find anything that popped up, that didn't look right. If I am right, you said that the 682 was bought from eBay, and that the extra linkage was not hooked up with the Drive Stud, but a screw. The original owner must have had a problem, and took it upon himself to try and fix it. Not understanding that it was a stud and not a screw, he broke it, and repaired it as best he could. (These are assumptions on my part).. It could all go back to how well was this 682 maintained, during his ownership. Did he keep it cleaned, lubed & oiled, as it should have been????? Anyone's guess at this point. Referring to some of my initial replies, you could very well have a problem with the brass bushings that are pressed into the black frame. If there is just enough slop in any one of the bushings, on the Drive wheels, not the center ones, it would cause wobbling. I have had to replace a set of bushings on one of my frames, and it isn't hard, but it isn't exactly easy to remove the old ones.
I'm throwing these thoughts out here, because I don't know what your repair guy did.

 

[teledoc]

Deleted as double post..

 

[Randomtask2]

There is an apparent problem with Photos at the present time, and some threads won't show the photos that were attached. I went back to your first post with the problem, and wanted to examine the photos, but they don't show up now. Don't know the reason why!!! I wanted to see to compare what I posted, to find anything that popped up, that didn't look right. If I am right, you said that the 682 was bought from eBay, and that the extra linkage was not hooked up with the Drive Stud, but a screw. The original owner must have had a problem, and took it upon himself to try and fix it. Not understanding that it was a stud and not a screw, he broke it, and repaired it as best he could. (These are assumptions on my part).. It could all go back to how well was this 682 maintained, during his ownership. Did he keep it cleaned, lubed & oiled, as it should have been????? Anyone's guess at this point. Referring to some of my initial replies, you could very well have a problem with the brass bushings that are pressed into the black frame. If there is just enough slop in any one of the bushings, on the Drive wheels, not the center ones, it would cause wobbling. I have had to replace a set of bushings on one of my frames, and it isn't hard, but it isn't exactly easy to remove the old ones.
I'm throwing these thoughts out here, because I don't know what your repair guy did.

The linkages were the only things replaced and new rivets. I will take pics of what it looks like complete once I get home.I have pictures prior to it getting repair. And I believe it does still have the wobble. It's minor though. My dad is just a perfectionist. I really do appreciate, the amount of advice. And how far your going to help me out.

 

[Randomtask2]

Let me know if the pictures are working there not for me.

 

[teledoc]

I know you are frustrated, but your father needs to realize the 682 is close to 70 years old, and will not run as smooth as glass, like most of the new stuff. My original suspicion for the wobble has got to be the brass bushings. You may not feel it by checking each axle and wheel set by hand, but it will show up while running on the track. That brings a whole different problem into the mix. You would have to pull the wheels/axles off, remove the bushings, press in new bushings, then reinstall everything. That requires a wheel puller, and a wheel press, to accomplish it all. Way beyond the cost and skill to accomplish on your own.

The front truck derailment is puzzling. Don't know why it does it.

The Forum has a problem with the Photos not appearing over the last few days, and not sure when it can be fixed????? Your photo doesn't show right now!!!!

 

[Randomtask2]

I know you are frustrated, but your father needs to realize the 682 is close to 70 years old, and will not run as smooth as glass, like most of the new stuff. My original suspicion for the wobble has got to be the brass bushings. You may not feel it by checking each axle and wheel set by hand, but it will show up while running on the track. That brings a whole different problem into the mix. You would have to pull the wheels/axles off, remove the bushings, press in new bushings, then reinstall everything. That requires a wheel puller, and a wheel press, to accomplish it all. Way beyond the cost and skill to accomplish on your own.

The front truck derailment is puzzling. Don't know why it does it.

The Forum has a problem with the Photos not appearing over the last few days, and not sure when it can be fixed????? Your photo doesn't show right now!!!!

Yeah I was wondering why the pictures won't work. So I was going to bring it up to the train guy who fixed it. About the linkage hitting the front wheels and knocking it off track.Because he has been doing this for a very long time. I don't think he made a mistake. But if only the 682 Didn't use those linkages. Lol

 

[teledoc]

Lionel tried to increase sales and decided to make the 682 a little more attractive with the white stripe and added linkage. The body from the 681 can NOT be faked to create a 682, so the rarity factor comes into play. That makes the 682 more desirable, over the 681. Both include Magnatraction, the 671/2020 don't have it.

 

[teledoc]

The photo function is working again, but if it didn't show earlier, it has to be reloaded, so it works.

I Just had a thought about the derailing issue. Does it happen in straight sections, or just in curves. If it is in curves, what type of track are you using?? Is it 027 or 0 profile, and what radius of curves are they. If the curve radius is too tight, the truck assembly will turn drastically, which would cause rather front linkage to hit the truck, causing a derailment. Just a thought!!

 

[Randomtask2]

The photo function is working again, but if it didn't show earlier, it has to be reloaded, so it works.

I Just had a thought about the derailing issue. Does it happen in straight sections, or just in curves. If it is in curves, what type of track are you using?? Is it 027 or 0 profile, and what radius of curves are they. If the curve radius is too tight, the truck assembly will turn drastically, which would cause rather front linkage to hit the truck, causing a derailment. Just a thought!!

Yea it derails front linkage on a straight track. Linkage bumps front trucks.

 

[Randomtask2]

The photo function is working again, but if it didn't show earlier, it has to be reloaded, so it works.

I Just had a thought about the derailing issue. Does it happen in straight sections, or just in curves. If it is in curves, what type of track are you using?? Is it 027 or 0 profile, and what radius of curves are they. If the curve radius is too tight, the truck assembly will turn drastically, which would cause rather front linkage to hit the truck, causing a derailment. Just a thought!!

This is old linkage and obviously one bent.