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Railroad Tycoon
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I won a Lionel Flying Yankee #616 with, 3- # 617 coach cars & 1- 618 observation car.
These sets came with 2 # 617's, an extra was included in the sale.:thumbsup:
It needs a little work, but it runs fine though the seller says it might slip a little on dirty track with the extra car attached.
My track is all apart trying to set up the extension over by my Rock so I couldn't pull the whole train yet.
I ran the motor out of the shell it runs fine forward and backwards. I got to clean and oil her up yet. One of the wheels looks a little funny and it has to be the one with the gear attached. I will get a picture of it later. I might even have a match in my junk box.

For those who don't know my Rock here, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=5314



These pictures are from the sale I did not take them. I just got the cars and they do look a little better then these pictures.
I think this is from 1936 or 1937 those sets are the same from some research I did, does anyone know how to tell if it is a 616-E or a 616-W?
Mine are chrome bodies and the locomotive is gunmetal as is the back of the observation car. The skirts are black.
I don't know if all of these came together or they are pieced from different sets.
I know one of the vestibules is different as is the one extra coach car.

Anyone have a Flying Yankee? $235 good deal? Needs new widows but has all the name plates and handrails. Windows are going to be hard to find, maybe I will attempt to make some up. Some rust on the chrome have to research what I can do. Like I said the pictures make it look worse than it really is.
The cab will clean up fine with a new coat of paint. Notice the stacks most I see are raised a little more? They sell new stack plates they are riveted on I wonder why my stacks are set so low? It seems as you can't move them any?

More later I got things to do but wanted to start this thread going, these are not my pictures.

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Hobo for Life
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Cool ed, I almost bid on one of those last week! Don't know about the Crome. The rest will paint up nice. I'm curious on how it runs on the track. I wast sure how smooth it would be in turns, that's why I didn't bid on one. For me it's a curiosity.
 

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I have the same set. Was my dad's as a boy. Mine's in better shape, but I made the uninformed mistake of using steel wool on the "chrome" parts of the cars. Didn't take long to figure out it was a mistake.

Isn't the 616W the unit with the whistle? Mine has it and it is easily visible when looking in the "butt" end of the engine. It also makes the engine weigh a ton.

The Flying Yankee has given me many good memories and now its making memories for my grandkids.

:smilie_daumenpos:
 

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Railroad Tycoon
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I have the same set. Was my dad's as a boy. Mine's in better shape, but I made the uninformed mistake of using steel wool on the "chrome" parts of the cars. Didn't take long to figure out it was a mistake.

Isn't the 616W the unit with the whistle? Mine has it and it is easily visible when looking in the "butt" end of the engine. It also makes the engine weigh a ton.

The Flying Yankee has given me many good memories and now its making memories for my grandkids.

:smilie_daumenpos:
Yes after I wrote that I saw that was what is is, W= whistle. Duh me. :eek:
I guess E= E-unit?
Yes steel wool is a no no on chrome, for light rust try a piece of aluminum foil. Dip in water and rub lightly it won't scratch the surface.
(Easier then writing a copy and paste)

This process yields two advantages. First, since the aluminum foil is softer than steel, it will not scratch the surface. And second, a by product of the process produces a fine metal polishing compound that smooths the chrome surface to a bright shine.
Cleaning Rust is basically oxidized metal or another words metal that has taken on extra oxygen atoms. As heat is generated by the friction of rubbing the aluminum foil on the chrome, a portion of the aluminum will oxidize to produce aluminum oxide. Aluminum has a higher reduction potential (i.e a tendency take on electrons and in the process reduce or break itself down) than the chrome, and will therefore leech oxygen atoms away from any rust on the chrome surface which changes the chemical properties of the rust and breaks it down.
Polishing Aluminum oxide is harder than steel, and the microscopic grains of aluminum oxide produced during the cleaning process creates a fine metal polishing compound which, mixed with the water you added, creates a paste that smooths and polishes the chrome surface.

You think yours are better then the ones I have?
I have a vision.
All mine needs is a little TLC, OK maybe a lot of TLC. :D

Tell me Kurt does your stacks look like they would pull off? See mine? All I see are taller then mine and the stack plate is riveted on they do sell replacements. Are your stacks metal? I was thinking that maybe somehow a plastic stack fits over the stubs I have and I am missing those?
See the 8th or 9th picture above.
It almost looks like someone might have cut mine?
Strange.

Took the locomotive apart,

P1250056.JPG
 

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Railroad Tycoon
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24,480 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I wonder how chrome paint would look?
I have been looking at different chroming processes.
Maybe bring them to a plating shop? My buddy used to run a big plating shop but he passed away years ago. He would have done it for free!:( (RIP John)
I would have to fill in the corrosion pit marks somehow?

Maybe paint them? CNJ Blue Comet blue? CNJ green and yellow? CNJ orange and blue?
Make it a CNJ Flying Yankee?


It would be one of a kind, the hell with destroying the value.:D:thumbsup:








P1260060.JPG
 

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Railroad Tycoon
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
After a little searching I found this in an old CTT magazine.
I will add it here in case someone wants to try and ID the year of theirs.
Though if you look at the descriptions it is kind of hard for certain years.

Lionel Flying Yankee's.
Build Dates, Identification.

1935
Set # 267-E or 267-W
1-616 (E or W) Power Car.
2-617 Coaches.
1-618 Observation Car.
Train entirely chrome plated, except for the top casting of the power car which was painted black.
Shown in the catalog with 4 door coaches and fluted bodies. Some un-fluted and 2 door trains have turned up.

Uncatalogued Set.
3 units; 616E, 617,618. Un-fluted
Painted satin aluminum color, with a red or black casting.


1936

Set # 267E or 267W
Same as the 1935 cataloged set.
Bodies chrome plated and came fluted or un- fluted.
2 door coaches.
Nose, tail, & vestibule skirts were painted gunmetal.

Uncatalogued Sets.
3 units; Fluted. Painted aluminum, with a light red top casting.
Aluminum or black vestibule skirts.
4 units; Most likely fluted. Chrome plated. Light red nose, tail, and vestibules.

1937

Set #267-E or 267-W
Same consist as 1936 cataloged set.
Fluted , chrome plated body.
Gunmetal nose and tail.
Vestibule skirts gunmetal or black.

1938

Set # 267-E or 267-W.
Same as 1937 cataloged set.
Vestibule skirts black.

1939

Set # 267 or 267W.
Same as the 1938 cataloged set.
"E" designation dropped on non-whistling set numbers.

1940
Set # 267 or 267W
Same consist as the 1939 cataloged set.

1941
Same as consist as the 1940 cataloged set.
All trains came with whistles.

The Lionel Flying Yankee was slated to be produced in 1942 as the "Victory Streamliner" but the war time restrictions on raw materials forced the project to be abandoned.
 

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Hobo for Life
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Not sure ed but isn't one side of the aluminum foil better to use then the other? I think I remember something like that. Also for your plastic windows, I thought someone here posted a way to polish them up. Maybe ask on the build fourm, I think it was an ho guy. I should have written it down.
 

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Railroad Tycoon
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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Not sure ed but isn't one side of the aluminum foil better to use then the other? I think I remember something like that. Also for your plastic windows, I thought someone here posted a way to polish them up. Maybe ask on the build fourm, I think it was an ho guy. I should have written it down.
I was thinking that same thing when I was rubbing. Next car I will try both sides and see if there is a difference. I used the shiny side a little.
I should have flipped it to the other side but I had stuff to do and it slipped my mind, I think I might have been using the wrong side.

It is said to use coke cola instead of water. I didn't try that.
O or OO steel wool will work on REAL chrome, but chrome plate or chromed plastic it will scratch the hell out of it.

I can't find any reference on as to what side to use.

Brasso is said to work good too, I don't have any of that.

After you do the aluminum rub it is important to polish it with a protector also, or else it will rust with contact from water or humidity.

Anyway you look at it, my parts are pitted, so maybe some filler and chrome paint would work?
 

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Yard Master & Research
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Very nice find there Ed, congrats! :appl:

I am sticking to rubbing and polishing compounds for cleaning. I cleaned up some badly corroded chrome stanchions. The polish was too fine but the rubbing compound cleaned it up. Get to cleaning, with luck a genie may pop out with all that rubbing.:D
 

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Railroad Tycoon
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Very nice find there Ed, congrats! :appl:

I am sticking to rubbing and polishing compounds for cleaning. I cleaned up some badly corroded chrome stanchions. The polish was too fine but the rubbing compound cleaned it up. Get to cleaning, with luck a genie may pop out with all that rubbing.:D
For now that is what I am going to do just try to clean them up the best I can.
I will have to paint the cab, that needs it.

I was polishing up the observation car and the back end came loose.
You know how the tabs hold things together? Well the tabs holding the back end to the body was held on by one paper clip, see picture. All the tabs are gone!:rolleyes:
I upgraded it to 4 smaller paper clips, it works pretty good. :p
And you can't see them.
But I sent the seller a message saying it would have been nice to disclose that in the description. He listed as "from my personal collection and I used to run them on my layout." He must have knew it. He probably did the fix too.

See what was holding it on? The chrome section still has 3 tabs but the observation part has none. You can't see them in this picture. I sent this to him showing the clip that held it on. I think the bottom truck piece which is held in place by 1 screw and 2 tabs into slots is from a different model also as 1 of the tabs doesn't line up with the slots on the body.
But all in all it doesn't look bad back together, I will take a picture.

P1260064.JPG
 

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Railroad Tycoon
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Back together, I can see just a little spot along the seam.
Next time I have it apart I think I can straighten it out.

The truck on these is held on by 1 screw. Then the front of the truck has 2 tabs that insert into the chrome body. Then it has 2 tabs that line up the body to the truck.
It is one of those that does not line up with the slots. It must be a different truck from a different train?

All the scratches you see are not from me, I guess at one point someone tried to clean these up with either steel wool or an abrasive cleaner.


Without flash

P1260067.JPG

With flash.

P1260068.JPG
 

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I didn't say mine was better, but its in better condition as they sit, and, well… it was my father's. (He was born in '28)

My set is in storage right now, but soon to come out. I'll check on the stacks and advise.

That tip to use aluminum foil to polish looks like a great way to go! Unreal how nice that turned out! Can't wait to get mine out and try that.
 

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Railroad Tycoon
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I didn't say mine was better, but its in better condition as they sit, and, well… it was my father's. (He was born in '28)

My set is in storage right now, but soon to come out. I'll check on the stacks and advise.

That tip to use aluminum foil to polish looks like a great way to go! Unreal how nice that turned out! Can't wait to get mine out and try that.
From what I see of yours they are better. :D
I really didn't give the foil a good try, I might end up shooting them with chrome spray paint. I did try a little polish and elbow grease.

I don't have a whistle, if you look at the first picture I took of the locomotive apart you can see a lead weight that is mounted in the coach section.
I wonder if you have that weight too?

The seller called me up but I was sleeping already.
The old (young) lady talked to him and she said he sounded like a nice guy and he said he never had them apart and did not know it was held together with a paper clip.
He did mention to her that he thought he had another observation car.

Maybe he will send me another?

To tell you the truth I added 4 smaller paperclips and it does work well in place of the original tabs.
Maybe if whoever did it had put 2 paper clips in no one would have noticed, unless they took it apart.
 

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Railroad Tycoon
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
How old are they, they show potential.
Either 1935 or 36 I think.
So almost 80 years old.

If it wasn't for some pit marks they would clean up fairly nice.
Though the painted parts do need paint and one of the vestibules is not chrome the other three are.
 

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Railroad Tycoon
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hey Ed, check this one for sale on eBay, now.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-TRAI...603890?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item5d48a30d72

Check the stacks… this is what mine is like….
I am watching every 616 on e bay.:D
Just to see what they go for, if you look close at that one it has a bunch of corrosion too.

I watch that seller a lot and their prices are always high. That price is almost double what I got mine for. And I got an extra 617, and just maybe my seller will feel guilty enough to send me another observation car.
I see all the stacks are longer that is why I asked, do....you....think....they....come....off?
Are they separate from the stack plate?
If not I guess someone cut mine down for some reason?
 

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I have absolutely no idea if they come off. I leave taking these things apart to those that know what they're doing! I'd be afraid I'd break something or pull a wire loose...

I had the engine rewired about 15 yrs ago, then realized it had a whistle and had "my guy" get that working. I was the second to ever hear it. Everett was the first (he fixed it). There was no whistle control and the transformer didn't have one like the KWs have... thats how I know we were the only to EVER hear it. Simply awesome.
 

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Railroad Tycoon
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
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