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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just got my Lionel Legacy 4-6-0 Reading and Northern this week and had a chance to test run it on Friday. After oiling it I put in on the track. It went about six inches and the lights went out and all power to the track was shut down. I have a Lionel ZW-L and it has excellent safety features and it‘s a good thing.

Took engine off the track and examined it to find the the rear roller pickup assembly had come in contact with the frame creating a dead short. There are three roller pickups on this engine, a single one near the front of the engine and a dual roller pickup near the rear. It was the rear pickup that came in contact with the frame creating the short.

Both pickups are only held on with a single screw. I tightened the screw on the rear pickup but stllol found that the pickup could pivot on the screw and come in contact with the frame. The design is different from the design on my Lionel Legacy H10.

I contacted Mario’s Trains and spoke to a gentleman, i presume is Mario, and he said he would get back to me. This is Saturday and I’m still waiting.

So, for those of you that have this engine check it our to make sure this does not happen to you. I’ve attached two photos, one of the 4-6-0 and one of the H10. They roller pickup assemblies are totally different. This cannot happen on the H10. I can’t understand why Lionel made this design change to such a critical assembly.

First Photo is the 4-6-0 and the second one is the H10. You can see from the photos how easily the 4-6-0 could short.

0C87B6B3-181C-4D0A-88B8-DA11804DB674.jpeg
8A7306D9-DDB9-496E-B33D-2BBAD1CCDB0D.jpeg
 

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There should be a key under the pickup that prevents it from rotating. Remove the pickup and check.
Pete
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The pickup is sitting on a square plastic piece with a square in the center and a corresponding square in the frame that it sits it. The screw cannot be tightened enough to prevent the roller pickup from twisting allowing the pickup to come in contact with the frame creating a short.

The front single pickup has two metal tabs that fit into the square plastic piece underneath preventing it from twisting. The rear pickup does not have any tabs.

I’m hoping that I can return it to Mario’s rather than having to deal with Lionel service which if a repair is possible will take months and even then I don’t have confidence long term with this engine.

If they won’t take it back I’ll just dump it for half of the $674.99 I paid and be rid of it and Mario’s.
 

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This the plastic part used on the last run of 4-6-0s. Lionel has not posted pictures of the current run yet.
560110


Contact me if decide to sell it.

Pete
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well if I don’t hear from him on Monday and get a satisfactory resolution I’ll just contest the charge on my credit card.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Same part. No way to get the screw tight to stop the swivel. I may remove the pickup and see how the engine runs since my layout does not have any switches.

It’s not a solution but I like the engine and found out I can actually go see the actual engine in Reading PA near my home and also ride on an excursion trip pulled by it. Maybe I can get a photograph of me holding the engine, ala that famous photo, and the actual engine, perhaps me in the cab. Who know’s.
 

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How about just placing a piece of packing tape on the frame under the roller. Mylar is pretty tough and has a decent adhesive.

Pete
 

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FYI. The pickup assembly starting from the bottom of the engine. 3mm screw goes through the roller base, through the plastic insulator, into a hex barrel nut. Above the nut is another insulator topped by a another 3mm screw that screws into the same hex barrel nut. The plastic insulators both have a hex cavity that fits the hex nut and keeps it from turning. If you can't tighten the screw something is missing or the insulators hex cavities have stripped out.

Pete
 

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It can't be that difficult to anchor the pickup so it will not swivel. there are several ways. I will look at mine (I have the brand new ten -wheeler, too) and see what and if it needs that help tomorrow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well, I took off the roller pickup as suggested by Norton and looked at the black insulator underneath. There is a square opening in the die cast frame and a nut in the center. This is where the screw goes to secure the insulator and the roller pickup.

I have tightened the screw but I suspect the corresponding raised square in the plastic insulated intended to sit into the opening in the frame is defective. It was suggested to put a piece of tape underneath to prevent the roller pickup from coming in contact with the frame and causing a short. While I appreciate the suggestion this is just a bandaid and will not prevent the roller pickup assembly from pivoting. Since the roller pickup could still pivot this in itself could cause operational issues.

I am planning on taking another approach:

Here are the options I am considering:

1- Contact Lionel Customer Service to make them aware of the problem I am having. I will ask them if they would be willing to supply Lionel Part # 610-1209-335 which was used on previous 4-6-0 production to see if it will solve the problem.

I will point out that issuing an RA and sending the engine back to Lionel under warranty would be costly.

2- If they agree I will return to the dealer Mario’s Trains. They have not responded to either the phone call last Friday or a subsequent e-mail sent on Saturday. If they do not respond by June 1, as was in my e-mail I will dispute the credit card charges claiming they sold defective product.

I’m hoping that Lionel CS will simply send me the part and I have confidence that it has a good chance of solving the problem.
 

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The engine should be under warranty and Lionel should cover the cost of shipping both ways.
The problem may be with the top insulator. These have a tab with a hole in it that either gets screwed to the frame or fits in a pin so it can't rotate. A new bottom insulator likely won't fix the problem and to get to the top insulator requires moving boards.
This is what the top insulator looks like.
560154


Pete
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Well, maybe I should just contact Lionel and get an RA and move on.

The one thing I like is I can go see the actual engine in Reading PA about an hour from me.

BTW: their website says this engine is a D10.

I’m done with Mario’s.
 

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One more suggestion. Its possible one of the screws that share the hex barrel nut are too long, That would cause one to bottom out before the roller base is tight.
Try removing the bottom screw along with the rollers and insulator and see if you can grab the hex nut and rotate it. If it seems fairly solid the top insulator is fixed. Install the bottom screw and see how much thread is exposed. Compare that distance with the combined thickness of the roller base and insulator. Maybe just grinding off one or two threads or using a shorter 3mm screw may solve the problem. Or add a washer under that screw.

This is the setup with different pickups and insulators, same idea.


Pete
560178
 

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I have two of the brand new 10-wheelers, the Nicholas Smith Strasburg RR special, and the METCA PRR model. Both do not have any problem with any of the pickups, all of them are securely mounted and don't move at all. While you can certainly send this back, it should be a simple issue to fix.
 

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Well, maybe I should just contact Lionel and get an RA and move on.

The one thing I like is I can go see the actual engine in Reading PA about an hour from me.

BTW: their website says this engine is a D10.

I’m done with Mario’s.
Your in Kitty Hawk NC and can make Reading Pa in an hour?
Man, you drive fast. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Well, I’ve tried everything except the last suggestion from Norton. I think this may just be an isolated case. One thing that I did notice when I got the engine last Tuesday was the use of brown paper tape on the top and bottom of the shipping carton.

Also there was brown paper tape covering the label, not the shipping label, but the label with the information, model number and other information. At first I thought perhaps the box had been opened but then I brushed it off. It was unusual though.

A friend of mine is a Lionel Independent Authorized Service Station. I’m going to reach out to him and see what he thinks. If I take it to him Lionel will pay him for doing the warranty work and will also provide any parts if needed.
 
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