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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
As I have (hopefully) put my Lionel prewar 1681 loco addiction to rest, I would like to say that I am moving on to bigger and better locos. Sadly, that's not the case ... rather, I'm being inexplicably drawn to smaller more mysterious prewar Lionel locos. I'm not quite sure where I'm heading, and I'm not quite sure where this thread will lead, but regardless, I'm happy to present:

Lionel Prewar 1015 / 1035 and 1506L ... A Tale of Two (or Three?) Brothers

The facts, as I know them, or perhaps, as I have convoluted them:

In 1932/32, Lionel produced a pair of MOTORIZED 0-4-0 locos tagged 1015 and 1035. As far as I have determined, there's very little difference between these. Perhaps (???) one was issued under Lionel's cheaper "Winner Lines" brand? Perhaps one had red frame trim and one had orange frame trim? I suspect that both were a carry over from Lionel's acquisition of Ives, and that these were really from Ives tooling. Regardless, here I will refer to the 1015 and the 1035 interchangeably. If anyone out there is aware of the specific differences, please chime in and let us know.

Here's a 1035 powered loco ... this one is NOT mine ... just a couple of 'net photos:





I believe that the 1015 / 1035 was wired for forward-only operation ... no manual reverse switch or e-unit.

Shortly thereafter, in 1933/34, Lionel (or Winner?) produced a very similar looking loco but with a CLOCKWORK (windup) motor, here tagged the 1506L. (The "L" designation was for "light" ... the loco had a battery compartment that powered a headlamp. I believe there was also a 1506 without the "L" designation that was part of the Mickey Mouse set.)

Here's a 1506L clockwork (windup) loco ... this one is also NOT mine ... just a couple of 'net photos:





As shown in the underside view, the half-round cutout in the cab frame is where a battery would have been held. There was a little toggle switch (of sorts) accessed through the open-ended cab back that would engage or disengage the battery, and turn the headlamp on or off. Also note the bell towards the front of the loco. I believe this was rung by a wheel-activated mechanical device (clapper) as the loco went down the track.

At first glance, the shells on these two "brother" locos (powered 1015/1035 vs. windup 1506L) appear identical. From the outside of the shell/cab, they essentially are. However, to accomodate the different motors (powered vs. windup), the red frames of each loco were cut/tooled differently. Also, the 1015/1035 had a closed-back cab, whereas the 1506L had an open-backed cab to accomodate the battery switch, as noted above.

So ... why am I interested / involved?

Well, I happen to have an empty 1015/1035 loco shell along with an empty 1506L shell. Both are in OK condition, but no original motor (powered or windup) for either. Here are the mysterious brothers that sit on my bench:


This pic shows the two brothers side-by-side. Though I'm missing a boiler front on the 1506L, the two otherwise look identical from the top.



However, it's the underside that reveals key differences. The motor-cutout in the frame of the 1506L is much smaller than that in the 1015/1035. The 1506L red frame has NO bracket-plates in the front or back to hold the windup motor. The 1015/1035, on the other hand, has a vertical motor bracket inside the steamchest, and a horizontal one below the cab.



Here's the closed-back of the 1015/1035 vs. the open-backed 1506L (for battery switch):



And, to put the tiny size of these loco-brothers into perspective, I've shown one here alongside one of my 1681's. If you thought the 1681 was small, let me introduce you to the 1015/1035/1506L!



Now, what do I have planned? I'm really not sure. I wish I could wave a magic wand and whisk up an original 1015/1035 powered motor, or maybe a 1506 windup motor. No such magical luck. However, I do have another Lionel Jr. motor (in parts) ... the same motor type you've seen used in my 1681, 1688, and 258 locos. The Lionel Jr. was NOT originally mated to the 1015/1035 ... it's motor casing is too long and tall in the back. Judging from the mount-tabs on the front of the motor, I also suspect that the Lionel Jr motor was wider cheek-to-cheek than the original 1015/1035 motor.



However, where would we all be without a little Frankenbashing?!? I am toying with the idea of cutting down my extra Lionel Jr motor to get it to fit inside my 1015/1035 loco shell. I think most of the surgery would be contained to the back/top of the motor sideplates. I may have to fiddle with the mount brackets that are integral with the loco shell frame. Before I decide anything, though, I think I'll make some "dummy" cardboard templates of the Lionel Jr motor, and then cut/fiddle with those to see how much I would have to hack away to create a happy ending for this little tale of two brothers ...

That's my story, and I'm sticking with it ... for now, at least!

(If any of you have any historical / technical details on the 1015 / 1035 / 1506L, please chime in. Thanks!)

TJ
 

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Railroad Tycoon
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For now TJ I can't even read the thread thoroughly as I got to go.

I just wanted to let you know.:D

I will dissect it more tomorrow.
If I can.:rolleyes:

I might not be able to till the weekend though.

Work, work, work ! :laugh:
 

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I am fairly new here, but your threads might be taxing on the wallet, I have a hankering for a 259E now, or something similar, I love that tinplate look.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Down at the Chop Shop ...

I've pushed ahead a bit with trying to fit (cram?) one of my Lionel Jr motors into my 1035 loco shell. The 1035 never had a Lionel Jr motor ... its motor was smaller, so I'm attempting a "shoehornectormy", so to speak!

In considering surgical options, there's two fundamental schools of thought:

1. Chop the loco shell as needed to accomodate the motor, or ...

2. Chop the motor as needed to accomoate the loco shell.

I've chosen the second option here, with the intent of leaving the 1035 loco shell as original (unmodified) as possible.

So ...

From the post above, this is where I started ... original 1035 loco shell; oversized Lionel Jr motor:



Next, I made a cardboard template of the motor (or, more precisely, the motor sideplate), and trimmed that as needed to fit with some sort of a bracket mount means into the loco shell. What we see below is the resulting chopped cardboard template placed on top of the yet-unaltered motor. The dark areas are what I need to chop away.




In thinking about where, specifically, to chop the motor, I had to consider motor-to-shell mount options. I chose the chop-method shown for the following reasons:

a. It leaves intact the three principal rivetted cross-rods that lock the left/right motor sideplates together. The chopped motor will still be strong.

b. I can still use the tabs at the front to lock the motor into the shell's steamchest.

c. I can mount (screw) the back of the motor to the existing loco shell's rear mount bracket through and via the rear motor cross-rod.

d. I left a "bulge" at the top/front of the motor in way of where a headlamp socket might be mounted, in case I want to add a light to the loco.




I did have to trim the original mount-tabs on the front of the motor down in size a bit, such that they would fit into the 1035 steam chest area.


And here's how the chopped motor now fits into the shell. (This is a test fit, only ... the wheels are loose, the motor needs rewiring, etc.) The loco shell is unmodified.



So far, so good ...

TJ
 

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TJ, I don't want to sound critical, but it appears that the motor should go up inside the shell about another quarter of an inch. I don't know if that is possible or not. This is based on the pictures of the original loco.
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The old square peg in a round hole bit, got to give you points for ingenuity. I agreee it would look nice up inside the shell more, but I also like the idea of not messing with the shell. Some day a better answer might come along and the unchanged shell will be there.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I have to say that I agree with you guys. After the test fit, I'm wondering if I can squeeze the motor up a bit, too.

Thinking is in the works ... stay tuned ...

TJ
 

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Discussion Starter #11
T-Man,

My problem is not clearance between the top of the motor and the underside of the boiler shell ... I'm tight, but generally OK there.

The problem I have is the vertical location of the wheel axles with respect to the steam chest and the drive rod linkage. In my first-fit attempt, the wheels are too low with respect to the steam chest. The drive rod would sit (on average) at a funny down angle.

So ...
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Back To the Chopping Block ...

Well, you guys were right ... My first test-fit of the motor had the loco shell and steam chest sitting too high with respect to the drive wheels. So, more chop-shop action needed ...

I cut down the motor assembly AGAIN, per the red lines shown here. This allows me to push the motor about 1/4" further up into the shell. Note, however, that I had to cut off the mount tabs on the front of the motor :( ...




This is how the motor and wheels now look (second attempt, still test fit). Much more pleasing, I think. What do you guys think? Better?



I cut down the back "shelf" of the motor as much as possible ... right to the rear motor cross-rod. I even whacked into that a bit, filing off its top to a flat surface. This cross-rod will screw into the existing (and unmodified) mount bracket on the rear of the loco's frame. No problem with that ...



However, to drive the motor further up into the shell, I had to cut away the mount tabs on the front of the motor. As such, I currently have no way to secure the front of the motor securely to the "red vertical mount bracket" that's tucked between the loco's steam chest...



I'm sure I can improvise some sort of a fix. I'll have to fabricate and fasten on (screw on?) some new tabs to the motor that are positioned in the proper place to mate with the slots that are in the mount bracket on the loco frame.

However, I'm facing one other annoying issue. On my beloved 1681 locos, and on this 1035 loco, Lionel's design team screwed up. Blatantly. As we know, most Lionel motors have the motor assembly offset away from centerline to account for the fact that the drive wheels on one side have geared backs, and the drive wheels on the other do not. Since the wheels much be centered on the loco and the track, the one-side-gearing must push the motor assembly closer to the non-geared wheelset. In the case of 1681's and this 1035, the rear mount bracket and screwhole is offset to provide this skewed bias. However, Lionel screwed up in the front ... the "red vertical mount bracket" that's positioned inside the steam chest (or more specifically, the mount SLOTS on this bracket) has NO offset bias. As such, any motor on a 1681 (or presumably a 1035) sits a bit skewed in the loco ... biased to one side in the rear (as it should be), but without bias in the front. Accordingly, the front geared drive wheel sits "outboard" a bit too much, and it will likely rub awfully close (or too close) to the drive rod that's trying to squeek past the wheel on its way to the steamchest slot. Not good.

So, in my effort to create a new forward mount tabs on the motor being mated to this 1035 loco, I'm hoping I can (finally) add in that front-mount offset bias, and get the front wheels back to being properly centered on the loco's centerline.

That's the goal, anyway. Back to my head-scratching ...

TJ
 

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TJ,
You should be able to make a U shaped bracket to fit between the motor side plates and fasten it in place with some 2-56 or 4-40 screws. You can bend the bracket to provide the necessary offset. In fact, it may be that the offset on the non-gear side will be about right and you will only need to bend the bracket on the gear side. You may need to notch the motor side place on the gear side to accomplish this. A proper notch on the gear side would keep the U shaped bracket from rotating about the screws.
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TJ,
Another thought: Cut off the motor side plates to clear the steam chest. Make to brackets, one for each side that have the tab to go into the steam chest slots. Mount one tab on the outside of the side plate on the gear side, and the other on the inside of the non-geared side. This should offset the motor about the right amount to get it near center.
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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Bruce,

FYI, the sideplate-to-sideplate width of this Lionel Jr motor is a bit wider (by about 3/32") than the original electric motor for the 1035 loco. I can deduce that via the two slots that are in the front mount bracket of the loco frame.

That said, I'm fiddling with ideas on bracket options, generally along your suggestions. One alternative I'm considering, though, is for me to make new "tabs" via bent strong wire (somewhat similar to a paper clip), with the other end of the wire drilled and pressed through the motor sideplates.

A solution is possible, for sure ... I just need to find the easiest/best option and material.

I'll keep you guys posted. Might have to wait a few days, though ... I've gotta go dodge Irene!

J -- These little little locos keep growing on us, huh?!?

TJ
 

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To stir the think tank, you can cut the front more and make new tabs. Either they fit directly or use an adapter. Another option is to buy some motor posts that have the tapped screw holes. Place ththem between the frames and regain some motor support. Maybe place a screw to it from the front somehow.

Look good so far.
 
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