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Discussion Starter #261
For the first time, ever ...

I got lucky with this one ...

I eBay spotted a Lionel Winner motor ... no wheels, and listed as non-functioning. The seller said that the middle gear would not turn a full turn, and that the motor did not run when hooked up to power.

But ... surprisingly, based on the listing photos, everything that was there showed little if any wear.

So, I bought the thing, and took a chance ...

Upon arrival, as I looked at the motor, I saw zero signs of any wear or run time. Everything was super crisp. Perfect "THE WINNER ..." stamp on the bottom. Zero abrasion on the pickup. Hmmm .... OK ... now to investigate further ...

The non-rotation problem was easily identified. There was a small metal glob in one gear tooth that prevented the large (middle) gear from rotating a full turn. I flicked it out with a needle, and that solved that problem. Motor now spun by hand OK.

With hopes, I hooked up some power, and figured she might now run OK.

Not. The armature consistently did a 1/3 turn, then stopped cold. No coaxing, oiling, etc. would get it passed that. It must be something screwy with the armature, windings, etc.

The frustrating thing on the Winner motors is that the brushplate holder was riveted in place. No easy way to get to the armature face to investigate. So, with some reluctance, I filed the rivets free, and pulled off the brushplate holder. Not much gunk at all. Actually, rather clean in there.

And then, I saw the problem ... the armature face has three copper segments. There should be a little gap between each of these. On this motor, two segments were actually touching each other ... essentially shorting out the electromagnet so that the motor would only spin 1/3 turn, as observed.

With a little flat-head screwdriver, I coaxed the two copper segments apart from each other. Then, a quick clean, oil, and re-assemble. (I re-attached the brushplate holder with 4-36 screws tapped into the motor frame.)

I cross my finger, and fired the thing up. Whirr!!! She spins like a charm! And literally, for the first time, EVER, I suspect. I think this must have been a factory defect motor that got tossed into a spare bin, and never used or fiddle with ... until me and now.

Welcome to life, little motor!

Now, I've got to find some wheels and figure out what I'm going to do with this little thing ...

Hmmm ...

Cheers,

TJ

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Discussion Starter #263
Thanks, John. Truth is, I've done enough of these little Winner and Junior loco / motor projects that I have a little collection of orphaned wheels. I haven't actually looked yet, but I think I can pull out a full set (w/ and w/o gears; w/ and w/o drive rod studs).

And ... I just might swap this "new" motor into the 1015 NOS loco shell I cleaned up a couple of weeks ago ... the one with the worn-hole pickup shoe. New with the new, so to speak ... just 85 years later!

;)
 

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And ... I just might swap this "new" motor into the 1015 NOS loco shell I cleaned up a couple of weeks ago ... the one with the worn-hole pickup shoe. New with the new, so to speak ... just 85 years later!

;)
Well TJ, that would be a... Winner! :p:p
 

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Lionel 1681

This is an old thread, but looking at the photo comparison of the “1681”, and the Windup locos, i realized that the loco labeled 1681 is actually the earlier 1661. The two locos share the same body, but the motors are different. The way to tell the 1661 is “Copper/Brass” trim. The 1681 came with Nickel trim. The trim is the telltale sign, of which loco you have. The 1661 came in Black, with red frame only, whereas the 1681 had a second color scheme of of all red.
 

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Discussion Starter #266
UPDATE, 11 NOV 2018 --

Teledoc and I have been delving into the Ives, Lionel (and Winner Lines) transition era. As we now believe, Ives first produced an electric-powered small loco using the basic 1015/1035 shell (before those actually existed). Ives tagged the loco "1815" and used this motor shown in Post 167 with "The Ives Corp / Irvington, NJ" printed on the collector plate.

Then, during the Ives to Lionel transition (with Lionel's Winner Lines thrown into the mix), Lionel re-issued the loco under the Winner Lines brand name as the 1015 electric-powered loco (black with orange frame) and also the 1035 electric powered loco (black with red frame). In both, they used essentially this same motor, but instead with "The Winner Toy Corp. / New York" printed on the collector plate.

So, we now believe that this motor shown in Post 167 was for the earlier IVES 1815 loco, as a precursor clone to the later 1015/1035 locos.

TJ

 

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Discussion Starter #267
Expanding further, Teledoc pinged an Ives historian buddy, and he sent the following photos of a TRUE Ives 1815 loco (precursor to the 1015/1035, but with "The Ives Corp / Irvington, NJ" printed on the collector plate. Here, too, the loco is shown mated to the 1507 tender, in both freight and passenger sets.

Excellent research by Teledoc!

Outstanding question, though: TJ's Ives motor (via collector plate tag) had 8-spoke wheels with NO drive rod crank. However, the motor from the 1815 Ives loco shown below DOES have drive rods. So ... what does TJ's motor come from? Another version of the 1815 without drive rods???

TJ
 

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Discussion Starter #268
1506L Battery Adaptor

We've commented here previously that the Lionel 1506L loco (and also the Lionel 1508 Vanderbilt-style loco) had a windup motor but also an electric headlight powered by an onboard DC battery. The old-school battery intended was just slightly smaller than a modern-day C, but with its negative (-) terminal as the outside shell of the battery (exposed originally by peeling away the battery wrap paper). We're not aware that anyone makes a battery like this today.

Teledoc and I have chatted about making a little adapter that would house a modern AA battery, and transfer the (-) terminal from the bottom of the battery to the side of the adapter/battery combo.

Here's a photo of an original (old) battery installed, along with some photos of a creative ADAPTER that I just saw posted via a current eBay listing. This is NOT my adapter, but rather simply one of like-minded thinking. It looks to me like the adapter was made out of machined Lucite (or similar), with a simple brass bar for the terminal transfer. 'Doc was thinking one could use a piece of PVC pipe. Either way, the concept is similar.

Cheers,

TJ
 

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TJ, I see that you did find the adapted battery holder, that I suggested in an earlier PM. I think that you, being able to see, from my descriipton, that it should be easy to come up with a workable solution. My choice of battery was using a 123A camera battery, along with making an outer sleeve from PVC. I will wait and see what the "Mad Scientist" comes up with.

I recently posted my latest acquistion, which is the Battery operated headlight 1508 shell. The race is on, as to who gets the modification done first.
 

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Discussion Starter #270
'Doc, I had a quick-and-dirty trial run with an adapter. I used 1/16" soft craft foam wrapped around an AA battery (like a roll of paper towel), along with a simple terminal strip made from a thin brass bar. The foam is nice because it offers a nice friction fit inside the loco shell holder.

In concept, I was on the right track. However, I realized that all of my thread-socket bulbs are for 14V ... too much resistance to light with just 1.5V from an AA battery. I'll need to pick up a flashlight bulb to try things out.

Cheers,

TJ
 

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Bob, Trying to adapt a 9 volt battery would require some major modification to the battery area. The way that the switch is located, to pick up the + side, and making the - side connection, would destroy the battery cavity. The best solution, to retain the existing battery holder, is to make an adaptive battery, close to the original design, that keeps the original dimensions. TJ, will probably try the solution before I do, and knowing how meticulous he is, it should come out fine. My choice of battery, would be a 123A, camera battery, with nominal 3 volts.
 
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