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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a Lionel Scout 1110, and I'm trying to get the engine running properly again.

Problem is that the E-Unit doesn't seem to function all that well, though I can't figure out why. It won't reliably reverse, and once in a while, it'll just stop with the light on bright (obviously no load). Flipping the lockout lever on the engine will start it right up again.

I split the case and looked all over, everything is whistle clean and seems proper. I cleaned the E-Unit contacts, and they're solid as far as I can see as well.

Where do I look?
 

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Gun,

That's one of those plastic-housing motors with the internal dual-drum e-unit. I just fiddled with a similar one on my 233 loco.

Couple of assembly questions / points ...

You have to get the drums in the right location ... pointed tooth drum on right, blunt tooth drum on left. Also, they must "mate" such that a brass section of one aligns with an insulated section of the other.

Also, the bent metal contact springs that touch the drums (one spring on top, one on bottom) must be installed with the little slotted-hole center tab facing inwards (not outwards).

You said you split the case ... I didn't get that far on mine (left my wheels on, etc.). Are you sure that the pawl that gets pushed my the top movable field is engaging the right-hand drum teeth OK? (The pawl turns the drum one index when power drops in the field).

Check those things, then we'll go from there.

My thoughts, anyway...

TJ
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well, yes to all of those. Drums are in correctly, they are opposed, i.e. not aligned brass to brass. The contact bump does point into the engine. The pawl is turning the wheels whenever I poke the armature through the hole on the top and force an index, both wheels turn. The movable field core that indexes it seemed to be sticking before I opened it up, but after I opened up and checked everything and put it back to together, it works freely.

All outward appearances are that it should work, but it's flaky. :(
 

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Maybe check things from a different angle ...

What about the voltage from the track? Is this a decent transformer? When you hit a reverse button, are you confident that voltage is dropping as it should? Are you getting any unintended voltage drops that are cycling the e-unit?

Just trying to narrow things down.

TJ
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I cranked up the voltage to 16 volts, I'm using my bench 1033 transformer. I can't imagine that voltage is the issue, the train will go like a rocket at full throttle, just won't reverse when I want it to. Several other old engines run fine on the same piece of track.

The E-Unit has the problem with the engine in my hand and clip leads connecting it to the transformer, so that's probably not the issue anyway.
 

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Have you oiled everything? Including the pawl and the drums? You can oil the contacts with 5W-20 motor oil, and it will not affect the electrical operation. I have brought a few of these engines back to life, and it seems that oiling everything made them work just fine.

BTW, you can oil the commutators with 5W-30 also, and it will radically reduce the motor friction. It doesn't burn or get gummy based on my tests of more than a year using a 2333. However, you should clean the commutator slots before you do this as the oil will release the dirt trapped in them and the dirt will contaminate the commutator. I have done this to several engines without a problem. It is somewhat controversial, though, with some guys claiming it can't possibly work. I wasn't sure it would work either until I tried it.
Bruce Baker
 

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With the conventional e unit the drum has to turn. You can hear that happen. If not, check the coil connection and the lever contact and hope the drum didn't break at the end. With that working ,you may have a bad finger contact. More pressure or replacement is needed. That is if the drum is clean.I am not sure if we are discussing an e unit at this time. Does the 1110 have the plastic motor????????
 

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T-Man,

I'm pretty sure the Scout 1110 is a plastic motor with an internal, two-drum e-unit (and not a conventional single-drum e-unit hung off the back).

Cheers,

TJ
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well, they're installed the only way that makes sense. They are as it was when I took it apart, and I really doubt it was ever apart before. I actually thought of that and fooled around with them, but no other orientation made any sense. Sitting on the bench, I can poke a small pin punch in the top and actuate the E-unit, so I think that part is assembled properly.
 

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Just thinking out loud here (I've never had one of these plastic motor fully opend up myself), but ...

The upper (movable) field that engages the e-unit pawl moves should move down when power is applied to the field ... the field winding itself acts like an electromagnet. When voltage drops (with a transformer throttle down or reverse button), the electromagnet releases its holding power, the upper field moves back up, and the pawl finger grabs and turns the e-unit gear one notch in the process.

You likely know all that ...

I'm wondering if it's possible to send power to the field directly (via jumper wires) with the motor opened up (and perhaps with the e-unit gears removed). I.e., can you attempt to isolate the electro-mechanical actions of the electromagnet / upper field / pawl and watch what they're doing (or attempting to do) directly?

Just a thought ...

TJ
 

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Got it. OK then ...

How about with the motor sides put back together, but with the e-unit cover and drums removed ... Is it possilbe to jump (power) the field in that configuration to see if the pawl is moving up/down OK?

Tell me to stop babbling if we're just shooting too much in the dark here ...

TJ
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Well, the armature is freely moving at that point, and since the motor runs strong, I have to assume that if it's going to work, it will work. In addition, as I previously mentioned, poking the armature through the lockout hole allows it to move freely and index the E-Unit wheels.

At this point, I'm putting it aside and working on some other projects, I have to get the small train platform working for Christmas, and there's lots of wiring to go! :)
 

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It's been a while, I am not sure what the lever does. That tells you how often I run it! I thought it was just forward and reverse. With these the engine wheel need to be clean for a good connection and the center roller. I say just run it forward or reverse. I am not sure what else to look for. Make sure you have good spring pressure too on the brush.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
The lever locks out the E-Unit, just like other trains. It just sticks the pawl down and stops it from ratcheting.

The motor runs great, so it's getting power, and the E-Unit doesn't even reverse when I have clipleads to the frame and the center rollers, it still malfunctions.
 
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