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The spiralling environmental cost of our lithium battery addiction
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lithium-batteries-environment-impact

So we solve one problem and trade it for an environmental disaster.

If we are going to switch over to electric vehicles. Millions of them.Let's hope they can come up with something better than lithium batteries.

I not sure the earth can take much more human technology. :D
 

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A pal had a 1993 Honda Del Sol 5 Speed with the larger engine 1.6(?) Lt engine. He regularly measured his combined mpg at 36 mpg. I'm guessing his highway mpg would have been in the mid to high 40s. And that, I believe, rivals the econo electric vehicles. And my brother took a 180 highway trip at 60 mph in a 4 cylinder Honda Accord. Got well into the 40s mpg.

I believe our nearer-term future is continued efficiency; cars, house heating/insulation, etc.

An electric vehicle's biggest asset is it's ability to reclaim energy in stop and go traffic: city taxi cabs, and garbage trucks come to mind. All a garbage truck does is stop and go every other house or so. And the new auto loading trucks stop at every house to mechanically pickup my trash can. Just think, no more squealing brakes at 7 am in the morning on garbage day :)
 

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A pal had a 1993 Honda Del Sol 5 Speed with the larger engine 1.6(?) Lt engine. He regularly measured his combined mpg at 36 mpg. I'm guessing his highway mpg would have been in the mid to high 40s. And that, I believe, rivals the econo electric vehicles. And my brother took a 180 highway trip at 60 mph in a 4 cylinder Honda Accord. Got well into the 40s mpg.

I believe our nearer-term future is continued efficiency; cars, house heating/insulation, etc.

An electric vehicle's biggest asset is it's ability to reclaim energy in stop and go traffic: city taxi cabs, and garbage trucks come to mind. All a garbage truck does is stop and go every other house or so. And the new auto loading trucks stop at every house to mechanically pickup my trash can. Just think, no more squealing brakes at 7 am in the morning on garbage day :)

i used to drive a 2013 gmc sierra crew cab. 6 inch lift and 35 inch tires... got 19mpg.
$500/m truck payment and $700/m gas as I drive 65 miles each way to work then 2 kids sports afterwards all week long and weekends.... so $1200/m to own the truck.

i traded my wifes trailblazer in and bought a 2014 prius and started to commute in that. $262/m car payment and $150/m in gas for the SAME commute!!!!!

in 2016 i got rid of the truck and bought the wife the jeep wrangler 4 door she wanted, sahara edition.
quick story - i was supposed to buy her a jeep in 2013 but someone test drove that truck and rolled out in it!!!! man did i have an ear full for 3y till i traded it in!!!!! but a $53k truck for $32k, who would refuse?


so in the summer and driving like a prius owner, I get 62-71mpg and driving like the rest of the idiotic traffic I get 55mpg.

now it is winter time and I get ~50mpg no matter how i drive, within reason.

car now has 150k miles on it and the wife asked me if I was ready to trade it in and I said.. nope its life is only half way done. Battery has a 10y warranty so I am not even looking until 2024 to which if its still running, ill keep driving it till I limp it into the junkyard with title in hand.
 

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Interesting article with not a lot of clearly wrong "facts" but a definate twist toward negative. It really isn't that bad . . . particularly if well managed. We just need to make sure we do that.

As we live on this planet and expect to have a higher standard of comfort, health, diet and life in general, we will leave a big environmental footprint. We can decide to go back to the stone age and be done with that, or vow to manage all of our envornmental impacts well. Really no choice between the two in the long run.

Lithium mining and disposal (recycling) ismessy and toxic. Any other battery technology that could replace/augment it is likely to be at least as messy just because of the energy chemistry involved. But I certainly would prefer that, well managed, to the environmental impacts that we have from petroleum. No contribution to global warming, no air poluution at all. Just a lot of careful, drudge work and containment, and a need to force manufacturers to recycle (which costs most) than dispose.

The real problem is that experience has taught us and we have laws enforcing reasonably effective environmental impact management of the petroeum and fossil-fuel industries - you have all manner of opinions - its not enough, its two much, it doesn't have the right incentives, etc., but its basically quite effective. It took a while to learn and put the legislation in place. It will take a while to get there with lithium batteries, but we will. Articles like this one are a big help in that direction.
 

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I remember a guy I knew in high school that drove a VW Rabbit. He was getting over 50 miles to the gallon on the highway and nearly that in town.

I've never seen a car since then that had mileage figures like that. It was also gas, not Diesel.
 

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Lee, all good points. At issue is less regulated countries that operate the same way we did>100 years ago with regard to environment. I just hope we don't back slide toward less regulation in exchange for more profits, because that's not a sustainable approach.
 

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... so in the summer and driving like a prius owner, I get 62-71mpg and driving like the rest of the idiotic traffic I get 55mpg....
Does that included the electrical energy? An all-electric vehicle will get a bazillion miles to the gallon not counting the electrical energy.

And all the charging stations run off the power company burning mostly fossil fuel. And while utility companies are way more efficient than IC engines, there's losses in transmission and charging. And a rooftop full of solar cells might charge a an EV in a day (if it's home while the sun is up).

And you should have known the GMC truck was a bad choice for a long commute. Given some examples in this thread, 130 miles round trip would be ~3 gallons: roughly $7.50 a day at today's prices, or $150/month and no extra electric charges.
 

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And global warming is still not proven.....in fact, there are many scientists that say the earth is actually cooling again....that's why the environmentalists have changed it from global warming to climate change.....even though that's what the earth has been doing since day one, over 4.5 BILLION years ago.....and it will continue to change long after man is gone.....that's the way to works, but nobody ever talks about that, there is too much money to be made by coming up with things to battle climate change.....

It's a losing battle.....climate will change with or without us, but again, that's the way it works.....

Let the naysayers begin.....:laugh:
 

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Does that included the electrical energy? An all-electric vehicle will get a bazillion miles to the gallon not counting the electrical energy.

And all the charging stations run off the power company burning mostly fossil fuel. And while utility companies are way more efficient than IC engines, there's losses in transmission and charging. And a rooftop full of solar cells might charge a an EV in a day (if it's home while the sun is up).

And you should have known the GMC truck was a bad choice for a long commute. Given some examples in this thread, 130 miles round trip would be ~3 gallons: roughly $7.50 a day at today's prices, or $150/month and no extra electric charges.
well its a hybrid engine.. so gas when needed and electrical when no real strain. I can go 4-6 miles in bumper to bumper traffic without using gas; however, i need to work it. Meaning.. there is a meter in the car and if i hit the eco button... and keep the moving line (with throttle) under half, gas engine will not turn on. At 25mph it turns off the all battery and could use gas but if your going slightly downhill and and your not pushing hard, it can keep at battery..

so yes total using both.

the prius is different than say the chevy volt where a guy i work with had. He drove it on pure electric for 22 miles to work, then 18 miles towards home and the last 4 miles were gas. That is an all or none. Prius is both and when gas engine is running, it recharges the battery and also braking does too

Does that included the electrical energy? An all-electric vehicle will get a bazillion miles to the gallon not counting the electrical energy.

And all the charging stations run off the power company burning mostly fossil fuel. And while utility companies are way more efficient than IC engines, there's losses in transmission and charging. And a rooftop full of solar cells might charge a an EV in a day (if it's home while the sun is up).

And you should have known the GMC truck was a bad choice for a long commute. Given some examples in this thread, 130 miles round trip would be ~3 gallons: roughly $7.50 a day at today's prices, or $150/month and no extra electric charges.
yeah I was at 8 gallons a day minimum @ $2.27/g minimum as it was up to $3.65 at one point so yeah added up.

but hey i still got my mudder
and an 8.1L big block chevy out of a 2001 silverado waiting to go in hopefully this summer!!!:cheeky4:
 

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There is a very, very large majority of scientist that don't agree with you.
I don't disagree that humans affect climate, look what we've done to the rest of the earth! But climate change has been going on forever, even before humans arrived. The currently-named "global warming" is the latest phase of climate change. There have been warming and cooling cycles since creation.

Surely mankind has its affect...smoke, pollution, mining, energy generation, and a long list of others. Nature can correct some of these, but may eventually get overwhelmed. That remains to be seen. So far the doom-sayers predicting numerous times the end of the earth have been premature.
 

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Does that included the electrical energy? An all-electric vehicle will get a bazillion miles to the gallon not counting the electrical energy.

And all the charging stations run off the power company burning mostly fossil fuel. And while utility companies are way more efficient than IC engines, there's losses in transmission and charging. And a rooftop full of solar cells might charge a an EV in a day (if it's home while the sun is up).

And you should have known the GMC truck was a bad choice for a long commute. Given some examples in this thread, 130 miles round trip would be ~3 gallons: roughly $7.50 a day at today's prices, or $150/month and no extra electric charges.
That used to be the case Mike, but today most power is generated by our own natural gas, of which we have quite a surplus. We even now export it to other countries, like our oil.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=34172
 

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Well, not really. There also seems to be a disconnect in the statistics from your source. Here's two statistics from the same source separated by two years.

Natural gas generators make up the largest share of overall U.S. generation capacity, December 18, 2017

Natural gas is 42% of the total

However, a couple of years later, they change their tune, hard to believe gas usage has gone down with it getting cheaper!

What is U.S. electricity generation by energy source?, Last updated: October 25, 2019

Nagural gas is 35.2% of the total, and coal seems to have made a comeback at 27.5%.
 

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There is a very, very large majority of scientist that don't agree with you.
There are also many that do agree, but we never hear about those because of the agenda.....

I mean, even your great POTUS agrees with me! :laugh:

And that's all I gotta say about that.....
 
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