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Guys, climate change debates belong somewhere else.
Back to electric vehicles and lithium batteries.

Tesla Puts Price on Model 3 Battery Module Replacement Around $5000-$7000
https://interestingengineering.com/tesla-puts-price-on-model-3-battery-module-replacement-around-5000-7000

With the rise of electric cars the question the cost of replacement batteries has occupied many experts and owner forums. In a tweet last week Tesla CEO, Elon Musk, indicated the cost of replacing battery modules in the companies Model 3 will cost about $3000 - $7000 USD.

Not a bad price considering the current batteries are designed to last 300,000 to 500,000 miles, which is the equivalent of 1,500 cycles. Its key to note that the car has been designed so that only the battery modules, not the whole pack needs to be replaced.

designed to last 300,000 to 500,000 miles. How long will the rest of the car last ?
 

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Well, not really. There also seems to be a disconnect in the statistics from your source. Here's two statistics from the same source separated by two years.

Natural gas generators make up the largest share of overall U.S. generation capacity, December 18, 2017

Natural gas is 42% of the total

However, a couple of years later, they change their tune, hard to believe gas usage has gone down with it getting cheaper!

What is U.S. electricity generation by energy source?, Last updated: October 25, 2019

Nagural gas is 35.2% of the total, and coal seems to have made a comeback at 27.5%.
Quite right John. I had NG at 34%, but I can tell you it's growing VERY quickly due to the lower cost of our domestic production. Either way, it's not a coal world anymore (don't tell my steamers). :laugh::laugh::laugh:
 

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Back to electric vehicles and lithium batteries.

Tesla Puts Price on Model 3 Battery Module Replacement Around $5000-$7000
https://interestingengineering.com/tesla-puts-price-on-model-3-battery-module-replacement-around-5000-7000

With the rise of electric cars the question the cost of replacement batteries has occupied many experts and owner forums. In a tweet last week Tesla CEO, Elon Musk, indicated the cost of replacing battery modules in the companies Model 3 will cost about $3000 - $7000 USD.

Not a bad price considering the current batteries are designed to last 300,000 to 500,000 miles, which is the equivalent of 1,500 cycles. Its key to note that the car has been designed so that only the battery modules, not the whole pack needs to be replaced.

designed to last 300,000 to 500,000 miles. How long will the rest of the car last ?
Not bad at all. I've got 6K in my kitchen counters alone. HAHAHA.
 

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That used to be the case Mike, but today most power is generated by our own natural gas, of which we have quite a surplus. We even now export it to other countries, like our oil.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=34172
I would have agreed with you until I saw GRJ post on the percentage of electric generated by natural gas.

But natural gas is a fossil fuel. Although much cleaner than coal or oil, it does release CO2 into the atmosphere among other pollutants.

In the end, the price you pay for electric to charge reflects the cost of the fuel (Gas, etc), the electric generation, and the transmission to the charge station. If the hybrid, on a long commute, uses the same amount of gasoline as the IC only car ($150/mth) but also consumes some KW hours of electric, then it's not as efficient as the IC car.

In the near term, I maintain a position that EVs are best suited for specialize applications where they can reclaim energy in stop & go applications, and possibly city traffic given the localized nature of IC emissions and the resulting smog.
 

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I've owned an EV for 8 years now, and the EV studies group at the company I founded has grown to about 80 people now, doing studies and engineering for electric utilitie, manufacturers, fleet owners and building developers on EVs and their infrastrcuture.

The range and rpelacement thing is more complex than you might think, and an owner can do alot to avoid it. A thing about lithium batteries. They wear out mainly because of internal heating due to charging and discharging - so the faster you charge them or discharge them, the more that shortens their lives. Tesla's, GM's, and everyone else's predicted lifetimes are based on using a Level II (has to be 240 VAC in) or faster charger. So:
1) If you use a Level 1 charger (all you can do with 120VAC from a wall socket - it charges at about 4 miles range per hour) and charge that slowly, you extend battery life. My Volt is nearly eight years old now. I never use the gasoline, its gone eight years about 100K miles on electricity only, always charging on a level 1 charger. I also taught myself to drive it very efficiently (to the point I routinely see 45+ miles electric range on its small battery, vs. GMs claim of a nominal 35) so that I almost never floor the car or draw power out quickly - i.e., never discharge it quickly either.
The result is that at eight years and near 100K miles, a point at which GM would say the battery is about down to near "end of life" my battery pack tests at 92% lifetime remaining: the car will wear out before this battery pack, at this rate.
2)Bigger battery backs last longer. If you drive 100 miles a day on a battery with a 120 mile range, and fast charge with a level II charger (100 miles would take about 6 hours each night), you are heating that battery noticeably every day when you charge it by adding that 80% of its fully capacity at a fast charge - impact on battery life will be significant. It will probably last only six to six years max.
But if the battery pack were a 500 mile range battery, you'd be charging it only with 20% of its fully capacity each night, still taking six hours, but the loss of life would be about 1/5th as much because the heat is distribubted over a bigger battery mass - the tmeperature rise is much less and the loss of life would be significantly lower - in fact loss of life might not be really noticeable and would be about equal to the life of the entire car if well cared for (about 25 years).
 

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I think I'd have a problem only getting about a 40 mile range out of my recharge overnight! ;)

I'll believe the 25 year lifetime when I see it for the batteries. Come to think of it, I may not be able to wait the 25 years to see it... ;)
 

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I think I'd have a problem only getting about a 40 mile range out of my recharge overnight! ;)

I'll believe the 25 year lifetime when I see it for the batteries. Come to think of it, I may not be able to wait the 25 years to see it... ;)
i agree... my commute is 65 miles one way...

but that car also has a gas backup.

guy at work used to have a volt and he loved it.
drove 22 miles to work on battery, drove 18 miles home on battery then it switched to gas for the last 4 miles.

it was a lease so when he turned it in the eMPG was 168 miles

my prius is only 50-70mpg but no car payment. I just missed the chevy BOLT deal... they were giving up to 9800 off plus i have $2500 in gm points plus my trade in of say $6k.....

well that leaves me with a $445/m car payment...
current car is paid off but ~$100/m in gas... i dont see the savings so not worth it to me... so ill drive this car into the ground.
 
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