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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone! I have been searching the web for information on a train I just received and found your forums.

I've seen some very similar trains to the one I have, but they are not quite it. I know it is a Lionel Train that is from before the war, and it has a plate on the bottom that says 027. I thought it might be a 1668 but they do not look the same. I'll attach some photos of the engine to this thread.

I want to clean the engine and cars and have it as a display. My 91 year old aunt and uncle gave this train, cars, and it appears to be the original track. He said the train was a toy that my dad and another uncle played with when they were kids (both of whom have sadly passed on). My uncle said that it did run the last time that him and my cousins had it out, which was roughly 20 to 30 years ago :) He also said that the motor of the engine did get repaired at one point, but he couldn't remember what or when that was.

Also in the box was another engine and tinder car, that looks like it is also a Lionel, but I cannot find any other markings on it. I'll make another thread later about that one.

Like I said earlier, I want to get some history of this engine and clean these engines up, building a display case for them with the outside possibility of restoring their full function.

So any tips on how to clean and restore along with any history would be great!

(And please excuse my dirty desk :) )

Thanks
Jon

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Railroad Tycoon
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Welcome to the site.
It is Post war

Here you go,

Bookmark that site, it has info about all the postwar train items.

Edit, If you just want to clean I would use a little warm water with some dish soap in it , like Dawn.
For the crevices an old soft toothbrush and Q tips help. Get some cotton balls to use with the water so you don't scratch it more then it is.
Take care around the numbers.
You can buff it out some with polishing compound, if you want. If you do go slow and gentle, use the cotton balls.
 

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I like the Torpedo locomotives, I wish I could have seen them when they ran down the rails.
We had a member Teledoc, he was the man to go to about the Torpedo locomotives.
Sadly he passed away a few years ago.

Bookmark this if you want to know something about them.
About everything you want to know about them, it was an on going study until he passed away.

 

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The 1688 is based on a Pennsy engine (S1??). The 221 is based on the NYC Dreyfuss Hudson.

Pete
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The 221 is a nifty little engine. An early version of the gun metal had aluminum wheels. Does it have a whistle in the tender?
I think it might. I noticed some windings on the trucks of the tinder and was trying to figure out what that might be for. Would the whistle be activated remotely or how did it work?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Welcome to the site.
It is Post war

Here you go,

Bookmark that site, it has info about all the postwar train items.

Edit, If you just want to clean I would use a little warm water with some dish soap in it , like Dawn.
For the crevices an old soft toothbrush and Q tips help. Get some cotton balls to use with the water so you don't scratch it more then it is.
Take care around the numbers.
You can buff it out some with polishing compound, if you want. If you do go slow and gentle, use the cotton balls.
Thanks everyone who pointed me to the site! My uncle that gave me the train wasn't sure when my dad and my other uncle got the train. He did know it was when they were kids. My dad was born in 1939, so he was probably 7 or 8 when they got the train.

And thank you for the cleaning tips. Would it be best to remove the shell from the motor and trucks?

That site also helped me track down the other engine I got. It's a Lionel 246 engine LIONEL TRAINS 246 LOCOMOTIVE
I think maybe this might have been my cousins train as they were born in the 50s / 60s. It needs a good cleaning too.

Jon
 

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Thanks everyone who pointed me to the site! My uncle that gave me the train wasn't sure when my dad and my other uncle got the train. He did know it was when they were kids. My dad was born in 1939, so he was probably 7 or 8 when they got the train.

And thank you for the cleaning tips. Would it be best to remove the shell from the motor and trucks?

That site also helped me track down the other engine I got. It's a Lionel 246 engine LIONEL TRAINS 246 LOCOMOTIVE
I think maybe this might have been my cousins train as they were born in the 50s / 60s. It needs a good cleaning too.

Jon
If mine, I would take the shell off and check out the motor. Service it while in there.
Then clean the shell while off.
Clean the wheels and running rods too.
A little drop of oil will do, don't over oil it.
Do you have a transformer? Put it on that track and see if it goes. Or wants to go.
The whistle works off the transformer.
 

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Yard Master & Research
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If the tender has a center roller, then it has a whistle. Check the wires for cracks. The old tenders are tricky because you have to undo tabs to get to it.

The visible winding you see is from the coil coupler. That can be tested. One wire on the frame the other touch the rivet on the shoe from a transformer will open the knuckle.
 

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Yard Master & Research
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Let's look at the coupler. According to Tandem Assoc. the 221 tender has a knuckle coupler. Here is an example.

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So to power a whistle the roller is shown for the center rail. There is the sliding shoe for the coupler.


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Currently I have one black and one gun metal 221 but have no original tenders. The gunmetal tender had a prewar butterfly coupler.
 

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If you remove the shell you need a 7/32 socket to remove the rods. Be careful the eccentric rod is delicate and supply is limited. Normally it is found broken on this type of engine.

First time screw removal can be tricky. try not to break any, Use a socket or screw driver that fits and is not loose.

Check the threads and shafts for bends. They may need replacement.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
If you remove the shell you need a 7/32 socket to remove the rods. Be careful the eccentric rod is delicate and supply is limited. Normally it is found broken on this type of engine.

First time screw removal can be tricky. try not to break any, Use a socket or screw driver that fits and is not loose.

Check the threads and shafts for bends. They may need replacement.
Thanks for the tips! I've been looking at the engine to figure out what needs to be removed before the shell will come loose and the rods looked like they would be a weak spot to work with. Is there anywhere online that would show a "how to" of engine disassembly?
 

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I don't have one to look, should only be 3 or 4 screws holding it on?
I tried to add a picture link of the locomotive but it won't take.
 

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There's a lot of pictures/info in this MTF Thread of a 221 restoration by TJCruiser. And I've attached the Lionel 221 service manual(pdf).

This might a a loco where one top screw is removed holding the frame to the motor. Then the motor slides out of the frame. Look at the screw directly behind the smoke stack (page 3 of the service manual).
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
There's a lot of pictures/info in this MTF Thread of a 221 restoration by TJCruiser. And I've attached the Lionel 221 service manual(pdf).

This might a a loco where one top screw is removed holding the frame to the motor. Then the motor slides out of the frame. Look at the screw directly behind the smoke stack (page 3 of the service manual).
Yeah, that screw looks like it has been removed at some point as it looks a little boogered up. There are 4 weird screws on the bottom that haven't looked like the have been touch
 

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Yard Master & Research
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The top screw and both side screws need removal and at least the front truck screw. If you are cleaning everything yeah remove the rear screw too.

If you get a chance post some pictures of the reverse unit. A screw on the side removes it, Inside you need to see the finger boards and drum.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
The top screw and both side screws need removal and at least the front truck screw. If you are cleaning everything yeah remove the rear screw too.

If you get a chance post some pictures of the reverse unit. A screw on the side removes it, Inside you need to see the finger boards and drum.
Ok. I have the motor out of the shell. Figured out the truck screws needed to come out before I read your reply :)

The wiring looks kinda shady. I am thinking about replacing the wires with more modern 22 gauge wire. The link to that other thread is helping track down what I need to replace and where they go.

I did find some old black electrical tape on the inside of the shell and it looks like some of the wires have blue electrical tape on them. Probably from when it was previously repaired.
 

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Yard Master & Research
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The wiring looks ok. The blue tape on top is normal because the wire from the center rollers can be in two pieces and that is where they connect. The socket could use tape the lead is long and could short on the socket holder. I cannot see the drum. From what I see of the fingers they are healthy. The lever looks stiff over time they can get sloppy and move when taking a corner.

Remove the reverse unit and get a picture of the back side. Overall that engine is clean. If you have a piece of felt force a hole through it and place it on the armature shaft between the brush tubes, Use it to absorb some oil.

If you ever replace the reverse parts, the finger boards come prewired.
 

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Here is reverse unit referred to as an e-unit. To operate the pawl must be pulled up when power is applied.
To make the motor work the fingers must have a good contact with the drum and the drum must be clean.

With the lever over the rivet, the coil will operate the pawl when power is turned on. WIth on /off the direction will change with a neutral in between.

Taking it apart requires a tool and patience to reassemble. I suggest you go to you tube to see it done.

You can clean the drum in place with a q tip and a cleaner. If the fingers are fine you do not have to take it apart.

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