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Discussion Starter #1
Good morning all. I am new to the forum, not completely new to modeling trains. I have done a few HO layouts, 40 years ago all with DC. Set up a couple of main lines for multiple trains, isolation, multiple power packs, remote switches, house/street lights all wired back to a control panel. I did it a few years at Christmas and the kids really enjoyed, well so did I. Always used a 4 x 8, with the standard folding legs.

Anyway, have always been intrigued with the hobby and looking to putting something together in a more permanent fashion. Over the last couple of months, watched a lot of you tube, purchased the AnyRail software and trying to put the mental vision of what I would like to do. My interest grew even more with the concept of Dcc. I managed to acquire a space about 8 x 10 for my new found interest. Really looking to go out on the limb with something other than a flat piece of board.

I do look forward to reading the interesting things members have done on this forum.

Hope to continue and maybe 1 day come up with something to keep me, and the grandkids out of trouble. Hope all of the dads out there have a good Father's day.
 

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Good morning all. I am new to the forum, not completely new to modeling trains. I have done a few HO layouts, 40 years ago all with DC. Set up a couple of main lines for multiple trains, isolation, multiple power packs, remote switches, house/street lights all wired back to a control panel. I did it a few years at Christmas and the kids really enjoyed, well so did I. Always used a 4 x 8, with the standard folding legs.

Anyway, have always been intrigued with the hobby and looking to putting something together in a more permanent fashion. Over the last couple of months, watched a lot of you tube, purchased the AnyRail software and trying to put the mental vision of what I would like to do. My interest grew even more with the concept of Dcc. I managed to acquire a space about 8 x 10 for my new found interest. Really looking to go out on the limb with something other than a flat piece of board.

I do look forward to reading the interesting things members have done on this forum.

Hope to continue and maybe 1 day come up with something to keep me, and the grandkids out of trouble. Hope all of the dads out there have a good Father's day.
Patb;

Welcome to the forum! I'm retired too and have a grandson that loves trains. Your past experience with 4 x 8 layouts sounds fairly typical , though you may have gotten further along than most. I started the same way, and so have many members here. Now you say you want to do something more permanent and have an 8' x 10' space available. Is that the entire room space, or the size of the layout alone? If the former then you are going to be a little squeezed if you want to stick with HO-scale. Not impossible, but a little cramped. However, if it's the projected size of the layout alone, and you have access aisle space besides, that's obviously a much better situation.
I wrote the files below for new model railroaders planning a first layout. With all your experience, you're certainly not new, and the layout you're currently planning obviously won't be your first.
Still, if you skim through them, you may pick up some bits that you can apply to your new, more permanent, layout. Section 3 & 4 of the "How to build a better first layout" series, for instance, has some sketches of shelf layouts in a 9' x 12' room. You could build a reduced version of such a layout in your 8' x 10' space if you wanted.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan :)
 

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Thank you Traction Fan. I actually found your links and have read through them. Very enlightening. I have found exactly as you indicated, that space would be cramped. I M now working with a wrap around with a hinged walk through. This will actually give me almost 40' of linear track. Now to identify the areas of the layout that I want to have.

I am looking forward to being able to take a road trip to CA. as I haven't found much here in Las Vegas.

Again thank you for the links, that helped tremendously in making up my mind with were I want to go with this.
 

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Thank you Traction Fan. I actually found your links and have read through them. Very enlightening. I have found exactly as you indicated, that space would be cramped. I M now working with a wrap around with a hinged walk through. This will actually give me almost 40' of linear track. Now to identify the areas of the layout that I want to have.

I am looking forward to being able to take a road trip to CA. as I haven't found much here in Las Vegas.

Again thank you for the links, that helped tremendously in making up my mind with were I want to go with this.
Thank you Traction Fan. I actually found your links and have read through them. Very enlightening. I have found exactly as you indicated, that space would be cramped. I M now working with a wrap around with a hinged walk through. This will actually give me almost 40' of linear track. Now to identify the areas of the layout that I want to have.

I am looking forward to being able to take a road trip to CA. as I haven't found much here in Las Vegas.

Again thank you for the links, that helped tremendously in making up my mind with were I want to go with this.
Patb;

You are quite welcome. I'm glad to hear that my files helped you. You say you're going to visit California, because you "haven't found much here in Las Vegas." Do you mean model railroads, train stores, or real railroad features you might like to model? Many hobby shops are closed, some permanently. Between online competition and the coronavirus restrictions, their business has dried up. There are some good model train clubs, and railroad museums, in California, but i think most are likely closed due to the virus. Where in California were you planning to visit?
If you come up with a sketch of your track plan, I'd be interested in seeing what you have in mind.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan :)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I found 1 train shop in town, all gauges. I found a shop in San Diego for just HO/N, much larger though. I understand the on line frenzy, that is with almost everything anymore. There are certain things I would rather look at physically rather than pics. But I am patiently waiting for something that resem les normal before making that trip, and it will be after talking to them first.
Once I get something put together track wise, I would definitely value your comments.
As my wife says, I over engineer anything I get into so this will be no different. LoL
 

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Patb

A belated welcome to the Forum.

You always get my attention when you mention the
possibility of a round the room layout. There is so
much operational as well as scenic potential. If you
will be going with DCC I strongly recommend a single
track main with a few passing sidings...you can run
two trains at the same time one going clockwise the
other counterclockwise...meeting at the passing sidings.
For the most operating enjoyment have a good yard
for loco and car storage and a number of industrial
spurs on which are located small freight users. These
give your switcher movements purpose.

When building your access 'bridge' be sure to include
an isolated track section on it's approach that will go dead
when the bridge is up, thus saving a valuable loco
for self destructing.

Don
 

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I found 1 train shop in town, all gauges. I found a shop in San Diego for just HO/N, much larger though. I understand the online frenzy, that is with almost everything anymore. There are certain things I would rather look at physically rather than pics. But I am patiently waiting for something that resembles normal before making that trip, and it will be after talking to them first.
Once I get something put together trackwise, I would definitely value your comments.
As my wife says, I over engineer anything I get into so this will be no different. LoL
Patb;

I live in San Diego, and have for many years, but I'm not aware of a train store here that sells only HO-scale & N-scale. My local train store is Reeds Model Trains in La Mesa, CA. which is a suburb of San Diego. They sell all scales from Z-scale, to G-scale. I'm curious. What store are you talking about that sells only two scales?

Watch out for that over engineering stuff. 馃槉 I spent most of my life as a service technician trying to keep overly-complicated stuff running. One thing became abundantly clear. The more complex anything was, the more often it broke down. One of my customers, a large aerospace Co. Had two older design simple printers. Against my advice, they replaced one of the old, simple, slow, but reliable, machines with a new super whiz bang "improved" model that was much faster. Guess which one was broken down ten times more often? I am a firm believer in the K.I.S.S. principal.
I had asked you earlier if your 8' x 10' space was the size of the room, or the projected size of the layout, minus aisles. You didn't answer the question directly, but since you plan on going around the walls, I'm assuming that's both the size of the room, and the size of the layout too. If that's true then have you considered switching from HO-scale to N-scale? While you could fit either scale onto a round-the walls layout that size, the train lengths and the ratio of railroad to scenery would be more realistic in the smaller scale. Like everything else about your layout, scale is your choice of course. May be you have lots of HO-scale cars & locomotives that you want to reuse? They may not be readily adaptable to DCC if they are forty years old. That would depend on the individual locomotives. New locomotives in either HO or N-scales are much improved over the old ones, run smother, especially at slow speeds, which makes switching easy. You can get DCC factory-installed in many locomotives in either scale, these days. You can also get sound if you want. There's plenty available, the only limit is cost. Oh boy, just what you needed, more decisions to make! 馃槃
The photos below were taken on my own N-scale shelf layout.


Traction Fan 馃檪
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Patb

A belated welcome to the Forum.

You always get my attention when you mention the
possibility of a round the room layout. There is so
much operational as well as scenic potential. If you
will be going with DCC I strongly recommend a single
track main with a few passing sidings...you can run
two trains at the same time one going clockwise the
other counterclockwise...meeting at the passing sidings.
For the most operating enjoyment have a good yard
for loco and car storage and a number of industrial
spurs on which are located small freight users. These
give your switcher movements purpose.

When building your access 'bridge' be sure to include
an isolated track section on it's approach that will go dead
when the bridge is up, thus saving a valuable loco
for self destructing.

Don
Thanks Don. I will definitely be going with Dcc. I have a lot learn in that aspect, well I am sure I have a lot to learn overall. I am hoping to run a mix of freight and passenger so was thinking I needed 2 mains anyway. That thought is probably a carry over of the DC days. Still mulling over the concept which will include a service area, hopefully with a turn table. Have a lot to ponder. Love the idea of the isolating track section with bridge position sensor.
Patb;

I live in San Diego, and have for many years, but I'm not aware of a train store here that sells only HO-scale & N-scale. My local train store is Reeds Model Trains in La Mesa, CA. which is a suburb of San Diego. They sell all scales from Z-scale, to G-scale. I'm curious. What store are you talking about that sells only two scales?

Watch out for that over engineering stuff. 馃槉 I spent most of my life as a service technician trying to keep overly-complicated stuff running. One thing became abundantly clear. The more complex anything was, the more often it broke down. One of my customers, a large aerospace Co. Had two older design simple printers. Against my advice, they replaced one of the old, simple, slow, but reliable, machines with a new super whiz bang "improved" model that was much faster. Guess which one was broken down ten times more often? I am a firm believer in the K.I.S.S. principal.
I had asked you earlier if your 8' x 10' space was the size of the room, or the projected size of the layout, minus aisles. You didn't answer the question directly, but since you plan on going around the walls, I'm assuming that's both the size of the room, and the size of the layout too. If that's true then have you considered switching from HO-scale to N-scale? While you could fit either scale onto a round-the walls layout that size, the train lengths and the ratio of railroad to scenery would be more realistic in the smaller scale. Like everything else about your layout, scale is your choice of course. May be you have lots of HO-scale cars & locomotives that you want to reuse? They may not be readily adaptable to DCC if they are forty years old. That would depend on the individual locomotives. New locomotives in either HO or N-scales are much improved over the old ones, run smother, especially at slow speeds, which makes switching easy. You can get DCC factory-installed in many locomotives in either scale, these days. You can also get sound if you want. There's plenty available, the only limit is cost. Oh boy, just what you needed, more decisions to make! 馃槃
The photos below were taken on my own N-scale shelf layout.


Traction Fan 馃檪



Patb;

I live in San Diego, and have for many years, but I'm not aware of a train store here that sells only HO-scale & N-scale. My local train store is Reeds Model Trains in La Mesa, CA. which is a suburb of San Diego. They sell all scales from Z-scale, to G-scale. I'm curious. What store are you talking about that sells only two scales?

Watch out for that over engineering stuff. 馃槉 I spent most of my life as a service technician trying to keep overly-complicated stuff running. One thing became abundantly clear. The more complex anything was, the more often it broke down. One of my customers, a large aerospace Co. Had two older design simple printers. Against my advice, they replaced one of the old, simple, slow, but reliable, machines with a new super whiz bang "improved" model that was much faster. Guess which one was broken down ten times more often? I am a firm believer in the K.I.S.S. principal.
I had asked you earlier if your 8' x 10' space was the size of the room, or the projected size of the layout, minus aisles. You didn't answer the question directly, but since you plan on going around the walls, I'm assuming that's both the size of the room, and the size of the layout too. If that's true then have you considered switching from HO-scale to N-scale? While you could fit either scale onto a round-the walls layout that size, the train lengths and the ratio of railroad to scenery would be more realistic in the smaller scale. Like everything else about your layout, scale is your choice of course. May be you have lots of HO-scale cars & locomotives that you want to reuse? They may not be readily adaptable to DCC if they are forty years old. That would depend on the individual locomotives. New locomotives in either HO or N-scales are much improved over the old ones, run smother, especially at slow speeds, which makes switching easy. You can get DCC factory-installed in many locomotives in either scale, these days. You can also get sound if you want. There's plenty available, the only limit is cost. Oh boy, just what you needed, more decisions to make! 馃槃
The photos below were taken on my own N-scale shelf layout.


Traction Fan 馃檪
Traction Fan, the shop I found was Arnie's Model Trains. If it still exists.. It does on line anyway. As far as the room, the 8 x 10 is usable space as I need to keep clearance to the closet as that is where the water manibloc panel is located. I have thought about about N gauge, for the exact reason you mentioned but not sure my hands/eyes can work with that. My old train stuff is still packed but only had a couple of engines anyway. If anything will make a good looking display on shelf ( Sante Fe). I will look through the pics as guidance. I think what I have in mind versus actual track layout may assist in the decision. I have only used HO in the past.
 

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Thanks Don. I will definitely be going with Dcc. I have a lot learn in that aspect, well I am sure I have a lot to learn overall. I am hoping to run a mix of freight and passenger so was thinking I needed 2 mains anyway. That thought is probably a carry over of the DC days. Still mulling over the concept which will include a service area, hopefully with a turn table. Have a lot to ponder. Love the idea of the isolating track section with bridge position sensor.






Traction Fan, the shop I found was Arnie's Model Trains. If it still exists.. It does on line anyway. As far as the room, the 8 x 10 is usable space as I need to keep clearance to the closet as that is where the water manibloc panel is located. I have thought about about N gauge, for the exact reason you mentioned but not sure my hands/eyes can work with that. My old train stuff is still packed but only had a couple of engines anyway. If anything will make a good looking display on shelf ( Sante Fe). I will look through the pics as guidance. I think what I have in mind versus actual track layout may assist in the decision. I have only used HO in the past.
Patb;

I'll check out Arnie's Model Trains, first online, and if they have their address & phone # on their website, I will call to see if their open in this era of the coronavirus, and if so, make a personal visit. Thanks for the info. I also need to call Reeds Trains and see if they are open. If they are when/if you come to San Diego, they would be another good shop to visit. The store is up for sale though so I'm not sure about their future. San Diego also has a first rate model train museum with multiple club layouts in O-scale, HO-scale, and N-scale. Well worth a visit if they are open.
If you can draw a scale sketch of your space, indicating where the door, closet, and any other important features/obstacles are, I'd be curious to see it. If you have a digital camera, or a scanner, you can make a digital file version that you can attach to one of your future posts, as I have done with my PDF files of documents and digital photos from my layout. Directions for how to attach photos or other files, are in the "Forum News, Updates, and Help" section. If you look in our "Beginner's Q & A" section, under "Layouts of some forum members" you'll see the type of sketch I mean, although few of those include much in the way of dimensions, or are drawn, even roughly, to scale. One forum member's layout plan you won't find in there, yet, is mine. I drew a nice scale drawing with dimensions and even some structure locations. It's even colored! I took digital photos too, but there still in my camera! I'm enough of a "digital dummy" that my wife has to retrain me every time, about such matters as loading the photos from the camera onto my laptop. She's out of town now, helping one of our daughters who has a newborn baby, and a five-year-old. That's enough to keep anyone very busy!
I've attached one more PDF file for you below. It concerns the subject that we are talking about, scale choice. In it, I relate my own experience of changing scales twice, my perceptions at each time, and a practical way to test your ability to handle a different scale, without investing a lot of money.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan :)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Patb;

I'll check out Arnie's Model Trains, first online, and if they have their address & phone # on their website, I will call to see if their open in this era of the coronavirus, and if so, make a personal visit. Thanks for the info. I also need to call Reeds Trains and see if they are open. If they are when/if you come to San Diego, they would be another good shop to visit. The store is up for sale though so I'm not sure about their future. San Diego also has a first rate model train museum with multiple club layouts in O-scale, HO-scale, and N-scale. Well worth a visit if they are open.
If you can draw a scale sketch of your space, indicating where the door, closet, and any other important features/obstacles are, I'd be curious to see it. If you have a digital camera, or a scanner, you can make a digital file version that you can attach to one of your future posts, as I have done with my PDF files of documents and digital photos from my layout. Directions for how to attach photos or other files, are in the "Forum News, Updates, and Help" section. If you look in our "Beginner's Q & A" section, under "Layouts of some forum members" you'll see the type of sketch I mean, although few of those include much in the way of dimensions, or are drawn, even roughly, to scale. One forum member's layout plan you won't find in there, yet, is mine. I drew a nice scale drawing with dimensions and even some structure locations. It's even colored! I took digital photos too, but there still in my camera! I'm enough of a "digital dummy" that my wife has to retrain me every time, about such matters as loading the photos from the camera onto my laptop. She's out of town now, helping one of our daughters who has a newborn baby, and a five-year-old. That's enough to keep anyone very busy!
I've attached one more PDF file for you below. It concerns the subject that we are talking about, scale choice. In it, I relate my own experience of changing scales twice, my perceptions at each time, and a practical way to test your ability to handle a different scale, without investing a lot of money.

Good Luck & Have Fun;

Traction Fan :)
Traction Fan, here is a jpeg of available space, drawn in Anyrail. Congratulations on your new grand baby.
 

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Traction Fan, here is a jpeg of available space, drawn in Anyrail. Congratulations on your new grand baby.
Patb;

I googled Arnie's model trains and got a large train store in Westminster Calif. That is in Orange county, not San Diego county and certainly not in the city of San Diego. Westminster would be a 2-4 hour drive from San Diego, depending on traffic. It looks like the store sells all scales, not just HO & N scales. Reeds model trains here in the San Diego suburb of La Mesa, CA. Is now open for business again, after closing down for the coronavirus thing. I have not checked on the train museums as yet.

Traction Fan 馃檪
 

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I am 65 years of age and new to the hobby and just getting started. I remember having a Lionel Steam locomotive O Scale set back in the 60's. I recently somehow found myself reminiscing on the train rides our family took each summer riding the midnight special from Union Station in Chicago and connecting in St Louis to travel to our destination in Blytheville Arkansas. The next thing I know I was on the internet researching the schedules from that time and tracing the routes and F3's that got us there. Long story which could never be short. I find myself purchasing an O Scale Santa Fe set which I haven't received yet. After many days of research, I see the most popular is HO Scale. However, I'm excited about running that set and expanding it gradually. I've ordered 2 additional cars and track but I realize I'm going to need more power to even run what I've purchased with the extra 2 cars. Please educate me. The set I've purchased is the Santa Fe F3 FT with minimal power and remote blue tooth. If I purchase another identical engine can I run it on the same track to increase pulling power without purchasing a CW-80.. I been looking for a Santa Fe ABA combo, but (new) is a little expensive or unavailable, and EBay scares me to death in this arena. Please advise.
 

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Patb

There's really not much to learn about DCC. When you select a
DCC System you get a power supply and a Controller. The controller
is often about like your TV remote. It has 2 wires that puts 14v modified AC on the
track at all times. That current also carries the digital information
sent by your controller. Each loco has a digital 'address'...often the
road numbers of the loco...the controller sends your direction and
speed instructions and the loco decoder feeds DC power to the
motor and lights. You can even have two trains running on the
same single track main, one going clockwise, the other headed
counter clockwise...they meet at passing sidings...you can't do
that with a DC layout.

Ignore all 'DCC friendly' hypo...it's meaningless...any track or any
turnout will be just fine with DCC. The important factor is smooth
even power feed to the track. It is generally recommended that
you have a track drop to an under table 'bus' every 6 feet or so.
The bus is powered by your DCC controller. No isolated sections,
panel of switches and complex wiring. (unless you have a 'reverse
loop' that permits a train to run thru turnouts around a loop and
goes back where it came from on the same track...if so there is an automatic
controller for that).

Any one of the several makes of DCC systems will be sufficient for your
layout plans. They are all dependable. You would want to check out
each. The controls and displays are different designs...some like this...
others like that...

Don
 

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Link: History of DCC
Just a short article about the 80 year history of independent model railroad controls, including DCC which is about 30 years old now.
When Don says "There's really not much to learn about DCC", I think what he really means to tell you is, that it can be relatively easy to get started in DCC.
You can see, from reading just a few threads on this forum, that DCC can involve a whole lot of "much to learn" in regards to loco addressing, bus wiring,
reversing sections, programming and programming track, consisting, sound decoders, decoder installations, etc., etc., ad infinitum.
I'm NOT trying to put you off, by any means. Just don't be blind-sided by issues that may (will) arise, because they can always be worked out. It's
not something to be scared of. IMO
 

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I am 65 years of age and new to the hobby and just getting started. I remember having a Lionel Steam locomotive O Scale set back in the 60's. I recently somehow found myself reminiscing on the train rides our family took each summer riding the midnight special from Union Station in Chicago and connecting in St Louis to travel to our destination in Blytheville Arkansas. The next thing I know I was on the internet researching the schedules from that time and tracing the routes and F3's that got us there. Long story which could never be short. I find myself purchasing an O Scale Santa Fe set which I haven't received yet. After many days of research, I see the most popular is HO Scale. However, I'm excited about running that set and expanding it gradually. I've ordered 2 additional cars and track but I realize I'm going to need more power to even run what I've purchased with the extra 2 cars. Please educate me. The set I've purchased is the Santa Fe F3 FT with minimal power and remote blue tooth. If I purchase another identical engine can I run it on the same track to increase pulling power without purchasing a CW-80.. I been looking for a Santa Fe ABA combo, but (new) is a little expensive or unavailable, and EBay scares me to death in this arena. Please advise.
Welcome to the site.
Sent you a PM. look upper right over your name you should see a red dot, click and you will see where the PM's are.
 

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I am 65 years of age and new to the hobby and just getting started. I remember having a Lionel Steam locomotive O Scale set back in the 60's. I recently somehow found myself reminiscing on the train rides our family took each summer riding the midnight special from Union Station in Chicago and connecting in St Louis to travel to our destination in Blytheville Arkansas. The next thing I know I was on the internet researching the schedules from that time and tracing the routes and F3's that got us there. Long story which could never be short. I find myself purchasing an O Scale Santa Fe set which I haven't received yet. After many days of research, I see the most popular is HO Scale. However, I'm excited about running that set and expanding it gradually. I've ordered 2 additional cars and track but I realize I'm going to need more power to even run what I've purchased with the extra 2 cars. Please educate me. The set I've purchased is the Santa Fe F3 FT with minimal power and remote blue tooth. If I purchase another identical engine can I run it on the same track to increase pulling power without purchasing a CW-80.. I been looking for a Santa Fe ABA combo, but (new) is a little expensive or unavailable, and EBay scares me to death in this arena. Please advise.
Firemaster One;

Welcome to the forum!
You said you ordered "an O-scale Santa Fe set." Is your set a three rail, AC powered, Lionel type, or is it O-scale two rail DC powered?
Most of the folks on our "O-scale" forum run Lionell, AC powered, trains on three rail track. If that's what you have ordered, then DCC (in the common sense), would not work for your trains. A DCC decoder outputs DC current to a DC motor. It won't be able to run the AC motor of a Three-rail AC motor, like those used in Lionel O-gauge locomotives. I'm guessing that a "CW-80" is an AC transformer.
Lionel does offer their own version of digital control that functions like DCC, in that you can run several trains on the same track, with independent control of each. It has a different name though. I'm an N-scale modeler, so I don't know all that much about O-gage trains. I suggest you ask your question over on our O-scale forum. There are lots of nice folks there who will be able to answer your questions.

Again Welcome;

Traction Fan 馃檪
 

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Firemaster One;

Welcome to the forum!
You said you ordered "an O-scale Santa Fe set." Is your set a three rail, AC powered, Lionel type, or is it O-scale two rail DC powered?
Most of the folks on our "O-scale" forum run Lionell, AC powered, trains on three rail track. If that's what you have ordered, then DCC (in the common sense), would not work for your trains. A DCC decoder outputs DC current to a DC motor. It won't be able to run the AC motor of a Three-rail AC motor, like those used in Lionel O-gauge locomotives. I'm guessing that a "CW-80" is an AC transformer.
Lionel does offer their own version of digital control that functions like DCC, in that you can run several trains on the same track, with independent control of each. It has a different name though. I'm an N-scale modeler, so I don't know all that much about O-gage trains. I suggest you ask your question over on our O-scale forum. There are lots of nice folks there who will be able to answer your questions.

Again Welcome;

Traction Fan 馃檪
Thanks. Will do. Three track O scale.
 
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