[cpotter638]

I'm a true newbie. Have zero experience with model trains. However, we are building a new home. My sons' room will be decorated with an "old west" theme. As such, we thought it would be a cool idea to add a model train around the perimeter of the room (near the ceiling). Our thoughts regarding this project:

Our two sons who will share this room are 7 yrs old and almost 2 yrs old.

This train will be fairly basic. Track will be continuous with no spurs. When we build the shelf for the track, we will leave enough room to add a parallel track down the road. And potentially switching??? The track / shelving will tunnel into their bathroom and potentially their closet.

If one of my sons gets more interested in trains, we would either build on the current idea or start a more typical HO ground level design.

We would like to go with DCC. I want my children to control the trains wirelessly with a remote.



Main question at this point:

We are currently in the rough-in stage of the home. From my limited research, will need:
Command (base) unit
Transformer
Booster ????? (don't really know what this is)
Wireless throttle / Cab.

So for the rough in:
We would need a standard electrical outlet. The transformer would plug into the outlet and in to the command center. If needed, the booster would plug into the command center? A single pair of wire would be added from the command center to the track, electrifying the entire track?

So - can we hide the outlet, command center, and booster in a closet and have the wire exit the wall at the level of the shelf? Is it OK to hide all of these components? When we hide them - will we need access to them on a daily basis, or will the unit be turned off / on from the throttle / cab? This will affect where we "hide" the components. Can we hide them up high on a shelf or should we place them lower where we will have easy access?

Will we only need a single pair of wire to the track? This will electrify the entire track? If we wanted to add track lights - these would get power from the track (and not need separate wiring)?

I'm guessing that we should run a spare pair of wires to electrify a 2nd separate track down the road? This would be wired independently from the first track, correct?

I have several other questions, but I hold off for now. Thanks in advance for all the help. Please let me know if I need to clarify anything.

Chad

 

[modeltrainhead]

sorry don't use DCC its for controlling two different train at two different directions you don't want them making train crashes DO YOU i would go with DC its best for that project and also DC also has an handheld throttle but it is wired and its less expensive no boosters just plug into track thats it

 

[tjcruiser]

Chad,

Sounds like a great plan, especially with you conceiving the details WHILE the house is being built. Not many have that luxury.

You've stipulated O scale (or O gauge track, really). In my opinion, that's a great choice for a size that will look pleasing from eye level when running around near the ceiling.

One thing you'll need to consider significantly is the turn radius of the track in the corners of the room, and the impact of this on required shelving, supports, etc. And also on the aesthetics of the room. Many who build O ceiling layouts opt for O27 track, which has a 27" diameter to the outer rails, or a 13.5" radius to the outer rails. That's pretty tight, even by smaller HO scale standards. However, NOT all O locos and cars will successfully navigate around a tight O27 turn. So, if you choose O27, you'll have a somewhat limited choice of locos and cars. Or, if you have a specific O loco (or long cars) in mind, that might dictate that you'll need larger O31 (or larger still) turn sizes.

No right or wrong answers to the above ... whatever works best for you ... But be aware of the restrictions with certain permutations.

(Though simple old-school O DC doesn't easily offer wireless, I'd echo the comment above that it might be a good choice for you if you're envisioning just one train running around a simple single-loop track. It's certainly the more cost effective solution.)

Cheers,

TJ

 

[cpotter638]

modeltrainhead:

Thanks for the reply. When we add a 2nd track, we may very well be running 2 different trains in different directions. We would prefer throttle / CAB to be wireless for our project. Are their DC options in this regard? If not, what is the ballpark price difference between DC & DCC (given the scope of our project)?


tjcruiser:

Thanks for the reply. It is beneficial that we can plan wiring ahead of time. Just want to make sure we get it right for expected functionality and potential upgrades.

Re: O scale - that was our thought as well. I know HO is the "standard", but the ceiling height in that room will be 9'. At a minimum, the shelf / track will be 7' above the floor. We thought HO would look too small. I'm sure O scale will be more expensive, but overall a better choice. It eases my mind to have you also support O scale.

Your comments re: corner radius and locos. This was one of the next questions I eluded to. Our desires:

Loco that fits the theme of the room. We are trying to mirror the "wild west". There will be a western mural in the room. There will be a secret closet which will look like a gold mine from the outside. Any loco suggestions that fit with our theme that are not completely out of line with budget?

Corners - we want to design the corners to prevent derailing. I would prefer not to have the plexiglass guard rail. Don't like the look. I have seen some videos online that go with no guard rail. They claim that they have had no derails (assuming the train speed is kept reasonable). Does DCC help in this regard? Can you govern the speed with DCC to prevent our children from maxing the throttle? Once we pick the loco, I assume we can set the corner radius? Any suggestions of locos or corner radius would be helpful.

I've attached an initial guess at track layout.


Thanks again for the help. Chad

 

[tjcruiser]

Chad,

For an old / wild west theme, you might consider the Lionel "General" steam loco ... they made it in the late 50's / early '60's, and I'm pretty sure it's also in production again. MTH trains also makes several versions of a similar train.

Lionel

MTH
http://www.mthtrains.com/content/30-1155-1

I'm not a DCC guy, but I'm pretty sure it offers excellent speed control / speed limits, as well as realistic onboard sounds, smoke, whistles, etc.

Cheers,

TJ

 

[tankist]

i do not see why your idea of application demands the extra expence of DCC. and then 1,2 trains will not require that much power to demand additional booster.

 

[modeltrainhead]

modeltrainhead:

Thanks for the reply. When we add a 2nd track, we may very well be running 2 different trains in different directions. We would prefer throttle / CAB to be wireless for our project. Are their DC options in this regard? If not, what is the ballpark price difference between DC & DCC (given the scope of our project)?

well DCC is in the 100 bucks range when dc is well at least 50 dollars cheaper lets just say that some are in the under 200 dollar range but that is HO scale

 

[tankist]

100$ does not buy decent DCC system. and even then dcc does not stop at system, one will also need decoders

 

[tjcruiser]

Chad,

One other thought popped into my head, that you'll likey consider at some point ...

Ceiling layouts can either be shelf-mounted (off a shelf mounted near the top of the walls) or suspended-mounted (via a cage "bridge" of sorts that is suspended from the ceiling. Both can be designed / built to offer aesthetically pleasing results, though the suspended method has a bit more freedom to allow the layout to "float" more in the middle of the room, rather than hugging the walls.

In considering either, you should think through required structural foundations as early as possible, so that proper wood blocking can be incorporated within your walls and/or ceilings.

Also ...

In your floor-plan early-thinking layout sketch, you might find that required turning radii dictate that the track loop further into the bathroom, rather than hugging the adjoining wall, as shown. I'm pleased to see that the bath/shower itself is in a separate section of the bath, limiting the amount of humidity that's in the room near the track.

In general, the idea of "tunneling" through adjacent walls to run the layout into multiple rooms is fabulous, and has yielded wonderfully fun results by others here on the forum.

Cheers,

TJ

 

[Big Ed]

Cool........build the house with every room connected with tunnels for the trains, right out the patio door through the garden and back.
Just put a switch in in case it rains and they can't run outdoors that day.:thumbsup:

I wish I could talk the "Queen" into putting tunnels through our walls.
She says no way!, so I am confined to the dungeon!

There are a few threads here with pictures of just what you want to do on the site. Somewhere.

By the way Welcome to the site if I didn't welcome you yet.

 

[tjcruiser]

There are a few threads here with pictures of just what you want to do on the site. Somewhere.

Here's a couple of good threads ... one on ceiling-suspended ideas, one on a shelf-layout development ...

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=2995

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=1898

TJ

 

[cpotter638]

Update

Thanks for all the posts. Update:

DCC vs. DC:
I know DCC is an added expense. However, from my limited knowledge, DCC allows wireless communication and allows the trains to have sounds. If DCC is $100 to $200 more, I am able to absorb the cost. Please let me know if my above thoughts are incorrect.

Wall mounted vs. ceiling mounted:
We will be doing a wall-mounted system.

Tunnel:
After talking with our builder, we will not be tunneling into the bathroom. It will be difficult to deal with current framing and managing track radius. Instead, we will be building a soffit in the room to make a tunnel. Thus, the train will not be entering the bathroom. The soffit will have access panels on it to manage track cleaning / maintenance.

Main question at this point:
Are my thoughts regarding electrical rough-in correct? Please see my original post for full details.

Thanks for all of the help thus far. Chad

 

[cpotter638]

Rough-in

Regarding most recent post - the info our builder currently needs is:



We are currently in the rough-in stage of the home. From my limited research, will need:
Command (base) unit
Transformer
Booster ????? (don't really know what this is)
Wireless throttle / Cab.

So for the rough in:
We would need a standard electrical outlet. The transformer would plug into the outlet and in to the command center. If needed, the booster would plug into the command center? A single pair of wire would be added from the command center to the track, electrifying the entire track?

So - can we hide the outlet, command center, and booster in a closet and have the wire exit the wall at the level of the shelf? Is it OK to hide all of these components? When we hide them - will we need access to them on a daily basis, or will the unit be turned off / on from the throttle / cab? This will affect where we "hide" the components. Can we hide them up high on a shelf or should we place them lower where we will have easy access?

Will we only need a single pair of wire to the track? This will electrify the entire track? If we wanted to add track lights - these would get power from the track (and not need separate wiring)?

I'm guessing that we should run a spare pair of wires to electrify a 2nd separate track down the road? This would be wired independently from the first track, correct?


Thanks again for the help. Chad

 

[Big Ed]

I don't know much about DCC so I won't answer that.

But you should have extra connections to the track at around 10' to 15' intervals that way you can be assured that you are getting power to all parts of your track.

I would go with 14 gauge wire to power the tracks. You can use 18 or 20 for the accessory's.

Some say 14 gauge is over kill, but a lot will agree that's the best to power the tracks.
Instead of clip on connectors you can solder them to the rail so you don't have any connectors showing.

As for the lights you should hook them up separately from the track so that you can control the voltage going to them.

What kind of transformer are you going with?

 

[santafe158]

Could you just verify one thing. Which scale are the trains you plan on using? Some people here are talking about HO scale, while others are talking O. I believe this statement is correct but I'm not too sure. DCC is for DC powered layouts, meaning HO. DCS (MTH) or TMCC (Lionel) or Legacy (Lionel) are the wireless controls for O scale. DO NOT power modern 3 rail o scale locomotives with DC, it will destroy them since they are made to run on AC power only.

But most importantly, have fun. I am looking forward to seeing the progress of this project.
Jake

 

[Big Ed]

Could you just verify one thing. Which scale are the trains you plan on using? Some people here are talking about HO scale, while others are talking O. I believe this statement is correct but I'm not too sure. DCC is for DC powered layouts, meaning HO. DCS (MTH) or TMCC (Lionel) or Legacy (Lionel) are the wireless controls for O scale. DO NOT power modern 3 rail o scale locomotives with DC, it will destroy them since they are made to run on AC power only.

But most importantly, have fun. I am looking forward to seeing the progress of this project.
Jake

Good point!:thumbsup:

I assumed it was O gauge as to the title of his thread.
(Newbie - Planning wall mounted kids room train (O scale))

But I didn't even think of that, you are so right. I guess he's going to get the command control set up.
Edit,
We should also add that some of the O is DC so watch what you buy.

 

[santafe158]

Sorry, I never noticed the o scale in the title Oops...
Yes, some older O, after postwar, before modern is DC powered. I believe you can run postwar on DC, but if it has a whistle, it should be disabled or it will blow constantly, modern cannot be run on DC at all.

 

[tjcruiser]

Not much I can offer on DCC or Lionel-equivalent.

As for placing transformer, controller, etc. in a cabinet ... doable, I'd think ... but be wary about required ventilation and any undue heat buildup. Wouldn't want the gizmos to get too hot and fry something.

TJ

 

[santafe158]

I think putting it into a closet would work, I only have TMCC, which is directly wired to the track, so signal shouldn't be a problem. You talked about shutting power off with the remote, you can shut power off to the track with TMCC, but everything else stays on, and it is safer to unplug, or switch the transformer(s) and whatever else there is, off.