[AFGP9]

Wow it looks as though you HO guys have progressed into a pretty advanced world with regards to electric technology. I used to be a HO collector/runner years ago but abandoned it for American Flyer S gauge since I have been a life long AF collector but no room for a proper layout until I bought my house with plenty of space 20 years ago. I still have all my HO engines, cars, and buildings. It is all blue box Athern except for a few Atlas engines and cars and a few Kato engines. All DC only. I had gotten out of HO right when the first DCC stuff came out. Every thing uses Kadee #5 couplers.
I also kept all my Peco turnouts and boxes of nickel silver track plus several MRC power packs.
I mention all this because back when I had HO layouts I never encountered any of the problems I have seen listed in various postings in the last few months by you guys. Not a criticism, just an observation. Has the HO side of the train hobby become that technical and complicated? I mean some of the questions I've seen asked sound pretty technical questions regarding electronics. Is it because of the DCC?
We in the American Flyer S world have our own series of issues but nothing on the scale of you guys. Plus I can service/repair those 60 year old American Flyer engines. If I wanted to build another HO layout, I have the room, I am pretty sure I would stick to what I know which is the DC equipment I have and would skip the DCC.
Just curious.

Kenny

 

[mesenteria]

As of today, approximately 50% of all HO/N players use DCC. The rest all use DC still.

DCC is complicated in and of itself, but it's really just a microchip, rectifier, amplifier, and outputs. Instead of you metering power via a rotary dial, the decoder meters rectified voltage to the 'clients', including the lights, motor, and amplifier. It does that based on your rotary dial instructions. What makes it different, or better, depending on your standpoint, is that you needn't have all those gaps and blocks and toggles or selectors, or whatever, running the rails. Instead, you actually run locomotives because you talk to one of them (decoders) at a time. DCC can have several decodered locomotives sitting on the same length of powered rails and have each of them do entirely different things, even simultaneously. One can reverse up to another, couple to it, and then both will work in concert if you want them to. Can't do that in DC.

 

[Eilif]

No shame in going with what you like and what you know. There's plenty of HO folks doing DC still, though new entrants do seem to gravitate towards DCC.

If -like me- you like Athearn Blue Box stuff, there's still TONS of it available NOS and as you say it's easy to repair and maintain.

I'm currently doing DC but I do plan on going DCC eventually.

 

[traction fan]

appliances

Wow it looks as though you HO guys have progressed into a pretty advanced world with regards to electric technology. I used to be a HO collector/runner years ago but abandoned it for American Flyer S gauge since I have been a life long AF collector but no room for a proper layout until I bought my house with plenty of space 20 years ago. I still have all my HO engines, cars, and buildings. It is all blue box Athern except for a few Atlas engines and cars and a few Kato engines. All DC only. I had gotten out of HO right when the first DCC stuff came out. Every thing uses Kadee #5 couplers.
I also kept all my Peco turnouts and boxes of nickel silver track plus several MRC power packs.
I mention all this because back when I had HO layouts I never encountered any of the problems I have seen listed in various postings in the last few months by you guys. Not a criticism, just an observation. Has the HO side of the train hobby become that technical and complicated? I mean some of the questions I've seen asked sound pretty technical questions regarding electronics. Is it because of the DCC?
We in the American Flyer S world have our own series of issues but nothing on the scale of you guys. Plus I can service/repair those 60 year old American Flyer engines. If I wanted to build another HO layout, I have the room, I am pretty sure I would stick to what I know which is the DC equipment I have and would skip the DCC.
Just curious.

Kenny

Kenny;

Like modern household appliances, DCC is complicated internally, but easy to use. One may not understand all that goes on inside their modern washing machine, microwave oven, or TV set, but you don't have to in order to use them.

Connecting a DCC controller to the track is the same as connecting a DC power pack, simply connect two wires from the controller to the track, and that's it for a small layout.
On large layouts, there may be "bus wires" used. These are heavy, (14ga.) wires that run under the layout, and parallel to the track. Each of the two bus wires is connected up to one of the track's rails with smaller "feeder wires" every 8-10 feet. The purpose of this wiring is to minimise electrical losses through long stretches of rail, and to not have to depend on rail joiners as electrical conductors.

You can get this same effect with DC too.
If you have a long track, you may notice the train slows down a little when it gets to the far side of the layout. You may have added a second pair of feeder wires to correct this.
With DCC the rails cary not only the electrical power for the trains, but also the digital signals that operate the various locomotives, so we want to minimise any electrical/electronic losses.

What you don't have with DCC is a control panel full of toggle switches to determine which power pack is connected to which track block, and therefore is going to control which train. Or the rat's nest of wires from all those toggle switches out to the various track blocks.
All that goes away as far as controlling the trains is concerned.
You just push a few buttons on the controller to select a locomotive,(ofthe the number that's printed on the number boards of that locomotive.) and then run it.
It's similar to running a radio-controlled model plane, or car. You send out signals that tell it what to do.

Both DC, and DCC, work and it's your choice which you want to use. By the way, I'm not an 'HO guy", I'm an N-scale guy. DCC works in all scales, not just
HO-scale. Would you believe Lionel, O-gage, AC powered, three-rail. has their own version of DCC available?

good luck, have fun!

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:

 

[D&J Railroad]

As I have said in the past, if you have trouble operating a soda machine, DCC may not be for you.

 

[Stan D]

I'd say the reason for so many "issues" posted is that, aside from build threads, most people don't post when things are running well.

 

[CTValleyRR]

There is a learning curve with DCC, just like everything else. The difference is, 20 years ago, the Internet was in it's infancy, and if you didn't know how something worked, you either experimented until you got it, or consulted the manual. These days, you do neither. You hop on a message board and ask. There aren't more issues not; just more ways to publicize them.

 

[Jscullans]

I made the decision to go dcc for simplicity of wiring and having less blocks means easier wiring so it makes it a little bit less complex having dcc and also being able to use different functions for different sound

 

[KsKAto]

As I have said in the past, if you have trouble operating a soda machine, DCC may not be for you.

That is one of the most arrogant, condescending and further from the truth statements I've ever read.
Completely ignoring all the questions, frustrations and problems people have with dcc.

I'm Obviously on the wrong forum. Nothing to learn here.

 

[CTValleyRR]

That is one of the most arrogant, condescending and further from the truth statements I've ever read.
Completely ignoring all the questions, frustrations and problems people have with dcc.

I'm Obviously on the wrong forum. Nothing to learn here.

So you'll condemn the whole forum because you don't like one post from one person?

We all say things that are easily taken the wrong way from time to time. You won't find a forum anywhere on which you won't occasionally see something that raises your hackles. I think you misunderstood the point he was trying to make.

 

[LateStarter]

Hell, I have trouble operating a coffee pot!

 

[rsv1ho]

That is one of the most arrogant, condescending and further from the truth statements I've ever read.

I'm Obviously on the wrong forum. Nothing to learn here.

Just invert the two and you have the same result.

 

[KsKAto]

So you'll condemn the whole forum because you don't like one post from one person?

We all say things that are easily taken the wrong way from time to time. You won't find a forum anywhere on which you won't occasionally see something that raises your hackles. I think you misunderstood the point he was trying to make.

No,I took it as it was written.
1.Did anyone of 'the whole forum' say anything? To say "hey buddy that's not a right thing to say, and for a couple of reasons.. Thats boastfully incorrect and many educated, sharp people find dcc hard to understand"

__ 'I'll find anywhere?'/'Raise my hackles'/ 'I misunderstood' !!
_ Really,,, trying to shift it all on me?
Again, I took it as it was written.

If that's not what he meant he should of used some that
self-evident CV dominating brain power and written 'Exactly' what he meant.
My sin was foolishness not self-importance.
I thought a forum would be a source for help, information & to educate others.
Not a place to take your ego for a walk.

Now I'm off to kick a Coke machine cause its the only way I know how to quench my thirst

 

[LateStarter]

Eeesh!

 

[prrfan]

So you'll condemn the whole forum because you don't like one post from one person?

We all say things that are easily taken the wrong way from time to time. You won't find a forum anywhere on which you won't occasionally see something that raises your hackles. I think you misunderstood the point he was trying to make.

No,I took it as it was written.
1.Did anyone of 'the whole forum' say anything? To say "hey buddy that's not a right thing to say, and for a couple of reasons.. Thats boastfully incorrect and many educated, sharp people find dcc hard to understand"

__ 'I'll find anywhere?'/'Raise my hackles'/ 'I misunderstood' !!
_ Really,,, trying to shift it all on me?
Again, I took it as it was written.

If that's not what he meant he should of used some that
self-evident CV dominating brain power and written 'Exactly' what he meant.
My sin was foolishness not self-importance.
I thought a forum would be a source for help, information & to educate others.
Not a place to take your ego for a walk.

Now I'm off to kick a Coke machine cause its the only way I know how to quench my thirst

“One of the most freeing things we learn in life is that we don’t have to like everyone, everyone doesn’t have to like us, and it’s perfectly okay.” –Unknown

 

[65446]

That is one of the most arrogant, condescending and further from the truth statements I've ever read.
Completely ignoring all the questions, frustrations and problems people have with dcc.

I'm Obviously on the wrong forum. Nothing to learn here.

I agree with you..because, ironically, DCC simplifies everything, not confuses, which I found more so in old analog DC days.
What needs to be made clear to those who are afraid or nervous about going DCC is that one does not need to get into the complexities of what makes DCC tick.. Same as analog, it takes a controller/throttle hooked to the rails with 2 wires. After that the purchase of DCC locos..Period !! I converted an MRC Tech II powered RR overnight to an NCE PowerCab throttle and that was that !! Yes, getting to know the programming has a learning curve. But one can make that as long or short a study as one wants (leave alone the magic of the more deep programming that one doesn't need to do, if one wishes)..
The Coke machine comparison is actually opposite of what he implies !! DCC actually creates simplicity coupled with prototypical operation and the long needed independency of locos... M

 

[Cab1]

And another one bites the dust. It's getting to the point on this website where everyone need to cheek with the morality and sensitivity police to make sure we're all on the same level of self-depuration before anyone can say anything.

 

[rsv1ho]

And another one bites the dust. It's getting to the point on this website where everyone need to cheek with the morality and sensitivity police to make sure we're all on the same level of self-depuration before anyone can say anything.

Nah, it's just life. We are really just a bunch of nice guys with opinions.

KSKato just wanted to mark his territory. My dog does the same thing.

 

[Riggzie]

Hell, I have trouble operating a coffee pot!

in my house it is ...

OK Google -
Beep ---
Brew rich coffee ---
Ok..Brewing rich coffee....

i think were good here so I can handle DCC then!!!!!


hah..

so on a non joking side.


I wanted to get into trains for EVER.. and now started...
I have had about 11 locos in boxes that I acquired years ago and never setup.

I just set them up and started checking out DCC but for me, the initial cost to check it out and box it all up wasnt worth it...

so I saw the Arduino/JMRI way.. and decided its cheap enough.
bought the stuff, and up here, was pointed to a cheap Bachmann DCC equipped train ($40 to my door!!!!!)
I bought that so I know that my DCC equipped train functions correctly... so now i can convert my trains. and what a nightmare that has been..hah...

like everything, its a learning curve and pretty cool stuff out there.

just take your time, read up, post questions (and have an open mind.. I am in IT and have thick skin.. internet tough guys dont offend me as my wife says I need sensitivity training)....


I think DCC brings out coolness but also if you totally automate it, to me, its a ... why bother.. it drives itself and your doing nothing... part of the fun to me is to speed up, slow down, switch tracks, etc... but that is my opinion...



********edited

forgot to add...
while DCC seems cool, and has great features... yes it seems a bit more of a learning curve.
I have atlas track switchers and will most likely just keep them DC as going DCC with them, seems like it takes so much to do so... servo's and the sort.. i havent seen just an easy way to have a dcc controlled turnout with a reasonable price...

 

[65446]

Riggzie, do i get you right ? Are you implying DCC is for automating a layout ? Why bring up automation when it probably is 1% of all train layouts ? DCC offers complete independence of locos/trains plus realistic sounds and lighting..Datz it....