[clovissangrail01]

I am starting to put together N scale stuff, and one of my acquisitions was a Kato N-scale Santa Fe Bluebonnet F unit set (F7 plus some freight cars), along with a Kato N-scale M1 starter set (Unitrack track loop and power pack.)

I got a very nice price, made all the nicer because what showed up had "Pre-Installed DCC on-board" emblazoned on the box, even though I know I did not order the DCC version.

I do not have a layout operational yet, so i built a loop with the M1 set on the dining room table (right on top of the Dia de Muertos table cloth), hooked up the Kato power pack, and took the Bluebonnet for a quick spin just to make sure it worked.

It worked great except for one thing -- With the power pack set in Forward mode, when I advance the throttle, it initially runs backward, but as I increase the power, it then switches direction and goes forward.

If I advance the throttle quickly enough to bypass the spot where it went backwards, it will go forwards without trying to back up, but it's kind of a jack rabbit start.

I also tested a 20+ year old Mopac E9 model with no DCC, and it runs normally, if a little slower than the Bluebonnet.

So my question -- Is this happening because I'm running a DCC unit on a DC set-up? Or is something else going on (i.e., it's broken).

Thanks.

 

[traction fan]

Yes

I am starting to put together N scale stuff, and one of my acquisitions was a Kato N-scale Santa Fe Bluebonnet F unit set (F7 plus some freight cars), along with a Kato N-scale M1 starter set (Unitrack track loop and power pack.)

I got a very nice price, made all the nicer because what showed up had "Pre-Installed DCC on-board" emblazoned on the box, even though I know I did not order the DCC version.

I do not have a layout operational yet, so i built a loop with the M1 set on the dining room table (right on top of the Dia de Muertos table cloth), hooked up the Kato power pack, and took the Bluebonnet for a quick spin just to make sure it worked.

It worked great except for one thing -- With the power pack set in Forward mode, when I advance the throttle, it initially runs backward, but as I increase the power, it then switches direction and goes forward.

If I advance the throttle quickly enough to bypass the spot where it went backwards, it will go forwards without trying to back up, but it's kind of a jack rabbit start.

I also tested a 20+ year old Mopac E9 model with no DCC, and it runs normally, if a little slower than the Bluebonnet.

So my question -- Is this happening because I'm running a DCC unit on a DC set-up? Or is something else going on (i.e., it's broken).

Thanks.

clovissangrail01;

Yes, your guess is likely correct. If the Kato F-unit can switch from forward to reverse, without you flipping the direction switch on your DC power pack, it has to be happening because of the DCC decoder. In DCC operation, the decoder controls all locomotive functions. Track power is a modified AC current with digital commands superimposed on the AC. Track power is constant, it does not change when DCC is being used. Running it on DC is probably confusing the decoder, that's why your getting erratic behavior from the F-unit, and not from the other locomotive, which is DC. There is a CV (configuration value) that can be set to allow a DCC loco to be operated on DC. However, you would need a DCC controller to change any CV. You may want to go to DCC and not change the F-unit at all. I use, and recommend the NCE Powercab DCC controller. Its simple to hook up (two wires) simple to program, and full featured. The whole controller is contained in one simple hand-held unit.

good luck, have fun;

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:

 

[clovissangrail01]

Thanks.

And of course, the next question -- Will I screw it up playing with it on a DC track?

I would really like to just start out building this with DCC, but I have some old locomotives that are not DCC ready and that I doubt are going to be easily converted, if they can be converted at all.

I have a couple of old Life-Like E8s in Mopac Eagle livery, and they have been in the closet for a long, long time. And I have a set of Eagle passenger cars to go with them. These are the driving inspiration for building a layout because my father worked for Mopac, and we rode Mopac passenger trains all over the Midwest back in the 50s and 60s. so I want those Mopac Eagles on my layout regardless of whatever else is on there.

So I can't do the layout without them. (Yes, it's an obsession. I've been wanting to build this for 25 years and I am finally going to do so.)

Which brings us to next question -- Can older locomotives like these be converted to DCC? And if so, how difficult is it? Do I need to go back to college and get an electrical engineering degree to pull it off? Are there places to hire it done?

All of my other motive power is DCC ready -- Kato F3s and a Kato E5 are DCC ready, so I should be able to drop in the converter and go. It's just the Mopac E8s that are approaching antique status.

Thoughts? Can you help give me an excuse to get that DCC controller you referred to?

 

[gimme30]

I've been looking into the same thing and from what I've been able to determine it's a simple enough matter to convert as along as there's space under the shell for the decoder board. Assuming you're comfortable with soldering...I haven't seen a "plug-in" option for this type of conversion.

One thing you need to keep in mind is that you can run your older dc engines on your DCC track but with caveats. Check out this link from NCE for more info:https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204481255-DCC-DC-Mixing

I'm on the fence myself since my small fleet is mostly analog. Even still, I may upgrade, mainly for the ability to shut off sound! I have ONE engine w/sound that makes all kinds of racket even though it's running on a DC track and while it was neat for about 5 minutes I really want to shut it off!!!

 

[traction fan]

Converting older locos to DCC

Thanks.

And of course, the next question -- Will I screw it up playing with it on a DC track?

I would really like to just start out building this with DCC, but I have some old locomotives that are not DCC ready and that I doubt are going to be easily converted, if they can be converted at all.

I have a couple of old Life-Like E8s in Mopac Eagle livery, and they have been in the closet for a long, long time. And I have a set of Eagle passenger cars to go with them. These are the driving inspiration for building a layout because my father worked for Mopac, and we rode Mopac passenger trains all over the Midwest back in the 50s and 60s. so I want those Mopac Eagles on my layout regardless of whatever else is on there.

So I can't do the layout without them. (Yes, it's an obsession. I've been wanting to build this for 25 years and I am finally going to do so.)

Which brings us to next question -- Can older locomotives like these be converted to DCC? And if so, how difficult is it? Do I need to go back to college and get an electrical engineering degree to pull it off? Are there places to hire it done?

All of my other motive power is DCC ready -- Kato F3s and a Kato E5 are DCC ready, so I should be able to drop in the converter and go. It's just the Mopac E8s that are approaching antique status.

Thoughts? Can you help give me an excuse to get that DCC controller you referred to?

clovissangrail01;

Yes, and yes. :laugh:

Yes, you could screw it up by operating it on DC. I would definitely NOT continue to run that DCC equipped locomotive on DC, at least not as it is. Newer locomotives are often factory-equipped with "dual mode decoders", designed to work on either DC or DCC. However there is a CV (configuration value) that must be changed for it to operate on DC. (correctly and without the possibility of damage to/smoke from, the decoder.) Catch 22, to change any CV, you need access to a DCC system. So there's your excuse to buy an NCE Powercab DCC controller. It sells for about $200, you may find discounts too. www.modeltrainstuff.com is a good online dealer.

Yes, you can hire someone to install a DCC decoder for you. First you have to find somebody in your area that does it, and then you have to pay them to do it.

Yes, in most cases you can convert an older DC locomotive to DCC. To do that you need to disconnect the motor from the frame electrically, and wire in a DCC decoder. It's not hard to do as long as you can read the directions that come with the decoder, and are reasonably competent at soldering small wires to small terminals, on small circuit boards. Key word small. There is an excellent book available on the subject. It's called "Basic DCC Wiring" by Mike Polsgrove. You can order a copy from https://kalmbachhobbystore.com/products/books

Having worked as an electronics service technician for 40-some years, and having seen what electronic engineers can do to mess up a machine, I wouldn't recommend going to the trouble of getting the college degree! :smilie_daumenneg:
Some really old locomotives are not worth converting. I go back in N-scale to the 1970s. Back then N-scale locos had crude, three-pole, motors, no flywheels, and two speeds, Too fast, and stop. If you have any of those antiques, I wouldn't bother.
The other problem with some old DC locomotives is that the plastic bodies were completely filled, and I mean wall-to-wall, and floor-to-ceiling, with metal mechanism/weight. This does not leave any room for the decoder. There are ways around this. You can have the mechanism machined ("milled") to make room for a decoder. There are companies that do this for a fee. You can do the same thing yourself, but there are problems to watch out for. Before you take your trusty hacksaw, and file, to your locomotive, you should mark the cut lines on the frame. Then completely disassemble the loco and save all the parts in a covered container or Ziploc bag. Then you can cut/file the frame without getting metal bits into the motor, the gears, and other places where they shouldn't be. Sounds like loads of fun doesn't it? :smilie_auslachen:

I don't think so either. There is a saner method. You can mount the decoder in a dummy diesel unit, or the tender of a steam locomotive. This will mean connecting four small wires from the trailing dummy unit up to the powered locomotive. Two wires are from the wheel contacts into the decoder, and the other pair carry the power from the decoder to the motor up front. Add another pair for a headlight if you want that to work. Not ideal, but easier than being your own machine shop.
Your Life Like eagle E-8 units probably have room in them. those are pretty big locomotives.

Finally there is a way to convert your Eagle to DCC without any work, but it costs money. Kato makes beautiful super smooth running E-8 locomotives. I have several, and they're great. Mine are DC but these days, you can probably buy a Kato E-8 factory-equipped with DCC and sound. If your Life Like shell will fit over the Kato mechanism, you can just swap shells. If not, you would need to repaint the kato unit in Eagle colors. In either case, I suggest looking for an undecorated Kato E-8. That will work for the shell swap, and if you need to paint, you won't need to strip the Union Pacific, Santa Fe, whatever, paint off The Kato shell first.
DCC adds so much finer control, the possibility of sound, and lots less wiring than DC. I should think that would be all the "excuse" you would need!


Have fun;

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:

 

[traction fan]

Blessed silence

I've been looking into the same thing and from what I've been able to determine it's a simple enough matter to convert as along as there's space under the shell for the decoder board. Assuming you're comfortable with soldering...I haven't seen a "plug-in" option for this type of conversion.

One thing you need to keep in mind is that you can run your older dc engines on your DCC track but with caveats. Check out this link from NCE for more info:https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204481255-DCC-DC-Mixing

I'm on the fence myself since my small fleet is mostly analog. Even still, I may upgrade, mainly for the ability to shut off sound! I have ONE engine w/sound that makes all kinds of racket even though it's running on a DC track and while it was neat for about 5 minutes I really want to shut it off!!!

gimme30;

Why not just cut one of the wires/foil runs to the speaker? That would shut it up without going to DCC.

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:

 

[GNfan]

I've read (here, no doubt) that before converting an older loco to DCC you need to check whether its motor can draw more current than the decoder can put out - or you'll fry the decoder. :thumbsdown:

 

[traction fan]

True but

I've read (here, no doubt) that before converting an older loco to DCC you need to check whether its motor can draw more current than the decoder can put out - or you'll fry the decoder. :thumbsdown:

GNfan;

Yes that can happen, but I think it might be more common in larger scales. Some of those old HO Athearn locos needed plenty of current, for example. Most DCC decoders are rated at one amp or more. An N-scale locomotive typically draws about half that. It's likely there are exceptions. In any case you're right, it's wise to check the stall current of the locomotive, and buy a decoder that can supply a bit more than that.

Regards;

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:

 

[gimme30]

gimme30;

Why not just cut one of the wires/foil runs to the speaker? That would shut it up without going to DCC.

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:

TF you've given me another yet another "DUH!" moment!

Wire snipped, silence restored. :appl::appl:

 

[clovissangrail01]

Thank you to everyone who responded, and special thanks to traction_fan for taking the time to write not one, but two very detailed answers. I have options to consider now that I never would have thought of myself.

I will mull them over and let you all know when I decide.

And now I have to decipher all the different couplers I seem to have on these locomotives and cars.

Thanks again.

 

[traction fan]

Couplers

Thank you to everyone who responded, and special thanks to traction_fan for taking the time to write not one, but two very detailed answers. I have options to consider now that I never would have thought of myself.

I will mull them over and let you all know when I decide.

And now I have to decipher all the different couplers I seem to have on these locomotives and cars.

Thanks again.

clovissangrail01;

You're welcome. I'm an old retired geezer with time on my hands. I'm also rather long winded, in case you haven't already figured that out! :laugh: So "very detailed answers" are no problem for me.
If all the various couplers you have are "knuckle couplers," (they look a bit like a human hand) then you should be able to use them together, and not have to change any of them. The key word in that last sentence is "should." Some running of trains, and practical testing of coupling and uncoupling will be necessary. While, theoretically, all knuckle couplers are compatible with each other. In reality, some work better together than others. Kato couplers, for example, work very well with more Kato couplers, but not so well with other brands.
In the long run, most experienced modelers end up replacing their generic knuckle couplers with Micro-Trains much better knuckle couplers. However, there is no pressing need to do this to all your rolling stock right away. I recommend using what you have, and replacing them with Micro-Trains couplers as they break, or continuously misbehave.
If you have any cars with the old Rapido couplers, (they look like a big, square, hook) the easy way to replace them is to buy Micro-Trains trucks, with their excellent couplers already attached. That's another consideration; do you have any cars, or locomotives, with the couplers mounted directly to the body of the car, or are they all mounted on the swiveling truck assemblies under the car? You should pick one system, or the other. The worst results come from mixing the two different mounting systems.
If your layout will have track curves smaller than 14" radius, I suggest using all truck-mounted couplers. They stay in the middle of the track on tight curves. This tends to make it easier for cars to stay on track in a tight curve. The downside of truck-mounted couplers is that they don't push backwards (like when pushing a string of cars into a yard track, or siding) as well as the body-mounted couplers do.
If the two are mixed, say a loco with body-mounts is pulling, or especially pushing, a string of cars with truck-mounts, the body mounted coupler will tend to push the truck-mounted one, and the truck it's mounted to, sideways when on a curve, or turnout. That often results in a derailment. That's why it's wise not to mix the two.

good luck, have fun:

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:

 

[clovissangrail01]

Thanks again. That was helpful.

I've got a little bit of everything. I have been wandering into train shows and hobby shops for the last forty years grabbing trains that struck my fancy and putting them in the closet awaiting the day when I had the time, the money and the space (all at the same time) to build a layout. So I have locomotives dating back to at least the 80s, if not earlier, but I also have a brand new, extra shiny Kato CB&Q Silver Streak (which the couplers work great on, by the way).

The Life-Like Mopac E8s mentioned in an earlier post have big, oversized Rapido couplers. And I have a set of five Con-Cor Mopac Eagle passenger cars that have what I will call "Rapido-style" couplers because they look like Rapido couplers, but are just a tad smaller than the ones on the E8s. As a result, they will couple, but they tend to get left behind on a 12-3/4 inch curve.

And I have two recently acquired Kato F7 Santa Fe warbonnets with Kato couplers, but I can't get these to couple to each other, let alone to passenger cars. But I haven't ruled out operator error for this, so I'm still working on it.

I have a small set of three Santa Fe passenger cars also purchased in the 80s, and these have Rapido couplers like the E8s, so they won't couple to the F7s. This may, however, become moot, because I have my eye on a very nice 8-car set of Kato Super Chief cars. If that happens, maybe one of those Santa Fe cars with the Rapido couplers can become a diner.

Finally, there is the Silver Streak, which couples together great, as does that Bluebonnet F3 that started this whole thread.

So the biggest problem is getting the Con-Cor Mopac cars to couple to the Life-Like E8s. Or get at least one of them to, anyway. These cars couple to each other OK, so I am hoping some kind of transition car would be a solution. I may even have something in the closet I can scavenge a big Rapido coupler off of. Or one of those old Santa Fe cars.

More later as I get farther into this.

 

[traction fan]

Thanks again. That was helpful.

I've got a little bit of everything. I have been wandering into train shows and hobby shops for the last forty years grabbing trains that struck my fancy and putting them in the closet awaiting the day when I had the time, the money and the space (all at the same time) to build a layout. So I have locomotives dating back to at least the 80s, if not earlier, but I also have a brand new, extra shiny Kato CB&Q Silver Streak (which the couplers work great on, by the way).

The Life-Like Mopac E8s mentioned in an earlier post have big, oversized Rapido couplers. And I have a set of five Con-Cor Mopac Eagle passenger cars that have what I will call "Rapido-style" couplers because they look like Rapido couplers, but are just a tad smaller than the ones on the E8s. As a result, they will couple, but they tend to get left behind on a 12-3/4 inch curve.

And I have two recently acquired Kato F7 Santa Fe warbonnets with Kato couplers, but I can't get these to couple to each other, let alone to passenger cars. But I haven't ruled out operator error for this, so I'm still working on it.

I have a small set of three Santa Fe passenger cars also purchased in the 80s, and these have Rapido couplers like the E8s, so they won't couple to the F7s. This may, however, become moot, because I have my eye on a very nice 8-car set of Kato Super Chief cars. If that happens, maybe one of those Santa Fe cars with the Rapido couplers can become a diner.

Finally, there is the Silver Streak, which couples together great, as does that Bluebonnet F3 that started this whole thread.

So the biggest problem is getting the Con-Cor Mopac cars to couple to the Life-Like E8s. Or get at least one of them to, anyway. These cars couple to each other OK, so I am hoping some kind of transition car would be a solution. I may even have something in the closet I can scavenge a big Rapido coupler off of. Or one of those old Santa Fe cars.

More later as I get farther into this.

clovissangrail01;

Since you are running a lot of passenger cars, you might want to try this old trick with some of your Rapido or "Rapido style" coupler equipped cars. This is a way to get close coupling with Rapido couplers, which, when coupled normally leave about 15 scale feet between cars. It is really only useful on more or less permanently coupled strings of cars. While real passenger cars were switched, model ones seldom are. Other candidates for this treatment would be modern unit trains, and the ore cars shown in the photos. The huge space Rapidos left between cars was especially glaring on these very short cars. One common practice was to assemble strings of 5-10 of these little ore cars with the Rapido cutting trick employed, but with a Micro Trains truck & coupler assembly on each end of the string. That way switching was still possible but only in blocks of cars.
The photos tell the story. Most of the hook part of the rapido at one end of a car was clipped off, leaving a 'T'-shaped nub. The entire Rapido coupler, spring. and metal retaining strap, were removed from the other end of the car. This left behind only the empty coupler mounting box. The 'T'-shaped nub of one car would fit into the empty coupler box on the next car. These things never uncoupled unless you lifted the end with the coupler box up off the track. Does your 40 year collection include any equipment with body-mounted couplers? I'm guessing the Life Like E-8s have their giant Rapidos mounted to the trucks and a great gaping hole in the front pilot to let the coupler swing? That was common manufacturing practice back in the early days. Micro-Trains makes special coupler conversion kits for most early N-scale locos. They may well have one designed to fit those Life Like E-8s. Did you get a chance to pull the shell off one and see what space is inside?

Just a thought;

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:

 

[clovissangrail01]

An Update –
DC vs. DCC – Even though I acquired a DCC Santa Fe Bluebonnet F7 at a killer-deal price (even if it was accidental), I have decided to stick with my original intention of making this first layout a DC layout. I have 7 locomotives that are all DC, plus the one DCC Bluebonnet. It does not make sense right now to change 7 of them so I can use the one.
Most of my locomotives are recently acquired Kato passenger units, and if and/or when I decide to switch to DCC, these will be drop-in upgrades. The odd-locos out are the Life-Like MoPac EMD E8s. I pried the shell off of one, and there is precious little room in there, so for the foreseeable future, these will say DC. I will, however, entertain the possibility at some point of either switching the shell with a DCC E unit or gutting one and wiring the DCC component in an empty shell. But that will be in the future, as these locos, and the Eagle passenger cars that go with them, have other problems to address first.
So the DCC Bluebonnet is going to sit for now. It was an impulse buy anyway. I just liked the way it looked, but it is a bit of an anachronism with my other equipment. The Bluebonnet is post-Amtrak Santa Fe, and my other equipment is all pre-Amtrak passenger trains.
Couplers – I have three trains – a Kato EMD E5A Silver Streak Zephyr, a Kato Super Chief powered by A-B-A EMD F7s, and a Mopac Eagle with Con-Cor cars powered by a pair of Life-Like EMD E8s.
The couplers on the Kato trains are great. They hold no matter what size curve I put them through, and they look good. But the Mopac (both the engines and the cars) are a mess.
The locomotives would look great in back-to-back A-A configuration, but the front couplers are dummies that won’t couple to anything. And the Rapido couplers on the back are bigger than the couplers (also look like Rapido) on the Eagle passenger cars. They stay coupled fine on the straight, but when they go through a curve, the cars de-couple from the locomotives.
So it looks like I’ll be doing coupler replacements on the Mopac, and it will sit on a siding in the meanwhile (once I have a siding).
In other news, Home Depot delivered a very nice, 36” by 80” hollow core door, which has about twice the space of the dining room table, and I am starting to plan out some track placement and figure out where to put the Union Station. (A real union station, not that Sunnyvale station in the picture)
Thanks to everyone for their help.
(And extra kudos to the first person to tell me where one might have found all three of those trains.)

 

[rrjim1]

This is what I did changing from DC to DCC. I purchased a Digitrax system, really liked the dual hand held throttle. I had a two cab system so I replaced one cab with DCC. That way I could run all my locos and slowly convert all my DC locos to DCC. After all my locos were converted to DCC I removed the DC cab and block switches. I really like the Digitrax system because you can run a DC loco with it. I have never had a problem running DC locos with it and always test new DC locos before installing a DCC decoder in them.

 

[traction fan]

DC operation and coupler conversion

An Update –
DC vs. DCC – Even though I acquired a DCC Santa Fe Bluebonnet F7 at a killer-deal price (even if it was accidental), I have decided to stick with my original intention of making this first layout a DC layout. I have 7 locomotives that are all DC, plus the one DCC Bluebonnet. It does not make sense right now to change 7 of them so I can use the one.
Most of my locomotives are recently acquired Kato passenger units, and if and/or when I decide to switch to DCC, these will be drop-in upgrades. The odd-locos out are the Life-Like MoPac EMD E8s. I pried the shell off of one, and there is precious little room in there, so for the foreseeable future, these will say DC. I will, however, entertain the possibility at some point of either switching the shell with a DCC E unit or gutting one and wiring the DCC component in an empty shell. But that will be in the future, as these locos, and the Eagle passenger cars that go with them, have other problems to address first.
So the DCC Bluebonnet is going to sit for now. It was an impulse buy anyway. I just liked the way it looked, but it is a bit of an anachronism with my other equipment. The Bluebonnet is post-Amtrak Santa Fe, and my other equipment is all pre-Amtrak passenger trains.
Couplers – I have three trains – a Kato EMD E5A Silver Streak Zephyr, a Kato Super Chief powered by A-B-A EMD F7s, and a Mopac Eagle with Con-Cor cars powered by a pair of Life-Like EMD E8s.
The couplers on the Kato trains are great. They hold no matter what size curve I put them through, and they look good. But the Mopac (both the engines and the cars) are a mess.
The locomotives would look great in back-to-back A-A configuration, but the front couplers are dummies that won’t couple to anything. And the Rapido couplers on the back are bigger than the couplers (also look like Rapido) on the Eagle passenger cars. They stay coupled fine on the straight, but when they go through a curve, the cars de-couple from the locomotives.
So it looks like I’ll be doing coupler replacements on the Mopac, and it will sit on a siding in the meanwhile (once I have a siding).
In other news, Home Depot delivered a very nice, 30” by 80” hollow core door, which has about twice the space of the dining room table, and I am starting to plan out some track placement and figure out where to put the Union Station. (A real union station, not that Sunnyvale station in the picture)
Thanks to everyone for their help.
(And extra kudos to the first person to tell me where one might have found all three of those trains.)

clovisangrail01;

Sounds like you have a good plan. Start simple, and upgrade gradually at your own pace. :appl:

For your small door layout (I built two of those long ago) you are not likely to need electrically insulated track blocks. If you use "current routing" turnouts, like the excellent Peco Insulfrogs, you won't even need to wire the sidings as separate blocks to park a locomotive on them. A current routing turnout acts as an electrical switch, in addition to being a track switch. It only powers the track that the points are set for. If the points are set for the mainline, then the siding will not have power. Note that since this is true for all such turnouts, on a passing siding, with a turnout at each end, one of two odd-seeming things will happen if only one turnout is set for the siding.1) the siding will "come alive" electrically, or 2) When only one of the turnouts is set for the siding, you will have a short circuit. If you get the short, try putting insulated rail joiners in both rails of both the main line and siding tracks, between the two turnouts. Electrically this will be equivalent to two separate sidings, each with only one turnout.

Kato couplers are very good at staying coupled to each other. Sometimes they are not very good at staying coupled to other brands of couplers. You may be able to buy more Kato couplers, if you want, but I strongly recommend you do most of your coupler replacing with Micro-Trains couplers. An exception to this might be the passenger cars. If you don't plan to switch them, say on the tracks of your union station, then Kato couplers or the modified Rapido trick I told you about, might be a good idea. Both stay coupled very well. To replace those dummy couplers on the front of some of your locos, I'd use Micro-trains if at all possible. If the N-scale coupler & mounting box won't fit, I have used M-T's Z-scale couplers. They are smaller, often just enough smaller to fit, but they will mate with their N-scale cousins, (Sort of like ********! :laugh

I look forward to seeing your "real" union station. The photos below show my mostly scratchbuilt, N-scale, model of Seattle Union Station, which is based on the real one.

Have Fun;

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos:

 

[clovissangrail01]

Traction fan -- Your Seattle Union Station is magnificent. That's the kind of thing I aspire to. I would love to see more pictures. Did you model the tracks and platforms? What did you use for those side walls?

And if I stand inside, can I look out the window and see King Street Station?

Mine own union station will decidedly be less ambitious. I just took delivery of the N scale Walther's Cornerstone Union Station, which is based on the old Chicago, Burlington and Quincy station in Omaha, Nebraska, which I have actually seen, although it has been a long time.

So in lieu of driving up to Omaha, I took to maps.google and found it is still there and being restored. I also found a nice perspective of it to model.

There are going to be some challenges. For one thing, the station has an entire lower level that is not in the kit, so would require kitbashing or scratch building. Also, this scene absolutely cries out for that triangular post office building to the right, which would also have to be a kitbash or scratch build.

But all in all, it could be a good starting point, something to harken back 60 years to when my father (Mopac employee) took me to St, Louis and Kansas City union stations and I could see the passenger trains lined up in their colorful livery, a sight that stays with me to this day.

More on all of this later.

 

[traction fan]

Traction fan -- Your Seattle Union Station is magnificent. That's the kind of thing I aspire to. I would love to see more pictures. Did you model the tracks and platforms? What did you use for those side walls?

And if I stand inside, can I look out the window and see King Street Station?

Mine own union station will decidedly be less ambitious. I just took delivery of the N scale Walther's Cornerstone Union Station, which is based on the old Chicago, Burlington and Quincy station in Omaha, Nebraska, which I have actually seen, although it has been a long time.

So in lieu of driving up to Omaha, I took to maps.google and found it is still there and being restored. I also found a nice perspective of it to model.

There are going to be some challenges. For one thing, the station has an entire lower level that is not in the kit, so would require kitbashing or scratch building. Also, this scene absolutely cries out for that triangular post office building to the right, which would also have to be a kitbash or scratch build.

But all in all, it could be a good starting point, something to harken back 60 years to when my father (Mopac employee) took me to St, Louis and Kansas City union stations and I could see the passenger trains lined up in their colorful livery, a sight that stays with me to this day.

More on all of this later.

clovissangrail;

Thank you very much! I like getting a "warm fuzzy" as much as anyone!


I don't know if your question, "What did you use for those side walls?" refers to the outer long walls, or the inner ones.
The exterior long walls are the only Non-scratchbuilt (kitbashed) parts of the structure. They came from two Design Preservation Models kits. One "Goodnight mattress factory", and one warehouse, who's name escapes me. I cut, and re-assembled, the walls to more or less resemble photos of the real station.

The four interior walls, the floor, and the fancy barrel-vaulted ceiling are all scratchbuilt from styrene sheet and shapes. The "twisted looking" detail around the arches is plain old string, coated in glue, and then painted. The floor is 1/16" "tile" sheet stock by Evergreen.
The prototype floor is made up of about eighty gazillion black and white little hexagonal tiles about an inch across. Nobody makes that pattern in styrene, so I used what I could get. Bye the way, no, I didn't hand-paint each of the checkerboard tiles, except for some touch up. The evergreen tile sheet was masked across with 1/16" chartpack masking tape. Then the whole sheet was airbrushed flat black. After removing the masking tape, I sliced the rows of tile along the cracks running lengthwise on the styrene sheet.. This left me with a lot of 1/16" strips with alternating black and white squares. I glued the strips, one-at-a-time, to a sheet of plain styrene. Starting with the second row, I offset each strip one tile. Shazam! Checkerboard tile floor.

The arches in the ceiling have surface-mount LEDs inside them. This is to simulate the many more lights recessed into the prototype's ceiling. The light fixtures along the walls were simple grain-of-rice incandescent lamps. They have been replaced with LED fixtures which resemble the prototype ones, but less elaborate. I have also added the green tile "wainscoting" to the walls, complete with a hand-painted gold stripe near the top. The exterior roof, and skylights, have also been added One of these days (don't hold your breath!) I will take photos of the improved interior.

"Did I model the platforms and track? Yes, but the track is being upgraded to DCC friendly turnouts. Since I scratchbuild my turnouts, don't hold your breath on that one either. :laugh: The platforms, and their umbrella canopies, are built, from scribed wood and brass, but they are stored in a drawer until the trackage is re-built.

"So, if you stand up inside can you see King St. Station?"
Well first you would need to shrink dramatically to stand up inside a model structure! Eventually, yes, an N-scale passenger could look out a window and see King St. Station. However it would be a painted image on a backdrop + some low-relief structure flat, since I don't have room for two large stations on my shelf layout.

I had to make some compromises in building the model. It's 10% smaller than scale size just to fit. The paired windows of the prototype would have required a lot more work, as would modeling the dozens of lights in each arch of the real ceiling. As for cutting out, and then hand-laying that hexagonal tile floor, get real!
Someone, somewhere may have a better model of Seattle Union Station, but this one's good enough for me.

The top two photos are of my model and the rest were taken at the real station, as if you couldn't tell!

thanks again;

Traction Fan :smilie_daumenpos: