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"...our point is that there is no way my brain can reconcile out of scale objects without screaming "TOY!"..."

That is the problem I have with most O scale layouts. Particularly Lionel based accessories, locomotives, and coaches. Not to mention the Code 500 tube track.

But as I said, that's my problem. Which I avoided by modelling HO.
 
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.... Even the minuscule smoke from an HO steam engine is far more realistic than towns of people frozen in one position while the engine moves along.

Again, someone choosing not to use smoke because of whatever, I understand. I just can't understand how smoke, synchronized with sound, can be said to ruin the effect while towns of frozen people doesn't.
We stand over our models from a scale 100m away, even more by the time the engine drags its tonnage to the far side of a 12' oval. A person not standing still in that scale, and at that distance, would hardly be seen to move in relation to the scenery or the passing train, and that's if they're not meant to be standing...which people do all the time. People stand and wave at trains, or they just watch them, or they stand on a platform near the tracks and ponder a weigh bill....while still. Not so the smoke which, on both prototype and model, issues in a blast of some kind. However, the former billows and lingers. The latter wisps and curlicues and settles down or disappears. Like the water running down the 'creek' on the model (I see I made a few typos back when I first replied, and have since gone back and corrected them...sorry) at a torrid 120 scale mph, which never happens, anywhere, it doesn't compute, and THAT is illogical....to me.

Some cars move, some are parked. The train moves. Some people stand, the train moves. Smoke billows, and then slowly dissipates, but the fake smoke doesn't and doesn't. So,...........

I think we should just end this by disagreeing, but defending until death the choices each other takes from our disparate experiences. I'd do it for you. :p
 

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My overall feeling is your railway your rules. For example because I like star wars I plan to mix in some star wars models I've built. (Don't ask me how. I haven't gotten that far yet. So ok, it's an idea.)

Now is that prototypical? Here's the way I think about it. Man people would wish it were!

So steam you like: good. Running water to similate a water feature .. I mean it seems interesting to me...

But others would barf at such ideas...
 

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Nothing to say about fake smoke. Just not my thing.

Re: "Frozen" people and cars... Someone on this board has said, "It's a model railroad, not a model world."

Vignette.


Yes, the scene is "frozen" in time. You have to set the scene so it tells a story.

Not much doubt about what's going on here even though it is "frozen".

 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
We stand over our models from a scale 100m away, even more by the time the engine drags its tonnage to the far side of a 12' oval. A person not standing still in that scale, and at that distance, would hardly be seen to move in relation to the scenery or the passing train, and that's if they're not meant to be standing...which people do all the time. People stand and wave at trains, or they just watch them, or they stand on a platform near the tracks and ponder a weigh bill....while still. Not so the smoke which, on both prototype and model, issues in a blast of some kind. However, the former billows and lingers. The latter wisps and curlicues and settles down or disappears. Like the water running down the 'creek' on the model (I see I made a few typos back when I first replied, and have since gone back and corrected them...sorry) at a torrid 120 scale mph, which never happens, anywhere, it doesn't compute, and THAT is illogical....to me.

Some cars move, some are parked. The train moves. Some people stand, the train moves. Smoke billows, and then slowly dissipates, but the fake smoke doesn't and doesn't. So,...........

I think we should just end this by disagreeing, but defending until death the choices each other takes from our disparate experiences. I'd do it for you. :p
I think we should have a contest: whoever can sit the longest on a speeding locomotive’s stack wins.
 

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@mesenteria -- From the length of your response to my comment I feel like maybe I touched a nerve? I wanted to clarify that I'm not trying to say anyone is right or wrong for using or not using smoke. I was just trying to make the point that nobody has the right to comment on the 'realism' of anyone else's layout unless their own layout is a near-perfect scale representation of the prototype (which of course is impossible). I try not to judge anyone else's work, I just enjoy the details that catch my eye and try to take note of anything I might want to add to my own modeling.
 

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@mesenteria -- From the length of your response to my comment I feel like maybe I touched a nerve? I wanted to clarify that I'm not trying to say anyone is right or wrong for using or not using smoke. I was just trying to make the point that nobody has the right to comment on the 'realism' of anyone else's layout unless their own layout is a near-perfect scale representation of the prototype (which of course is impossible). I try not to judge anyone else's work, I just enjoy the details that catch my eye and try to take note of anything I might want to add to my own modeling.
I think most of us posting have been very clear that what we are talking about is our own opinion, and that it doesn't govern anyone else.

The only way a person can be "wrong" on a topic like this is to try to invalidate someone else's perspective. Let's all keep that in mind as we discuss it.
 

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@mesenteria -- From the length of your response to my comment I feel like maybe I touched a nerve? I wanted to clarify that I'm not trying to say anyone is right or wrong for using or not using smoke. I was just trying to make the point that nobody has the right to comment on the 'realism' of anyone else's layout unless their own layout is a near-perfect scale representation of the prototype (which of course is impossible). I try not to judge anyone else's work, I just enjoy the details that catch my eye and try to take note of anything I might want to add to my own modeling.
Not to get too far into the weeds here, but telling someone that, unless they're perfect they ought not to have a critical view, or express it, disqualifies all of us from having a legitimate right to comment about anything. As a result, logicians label such circuitous arguments 'ad hominem'. That is, while not bothering to respond to the comment, even to the extent of destroying it handily, we instead tell the person uttering it that THEY are diminished, defective, wanting, or simply inadequate to offer a legitimate comment.

An example: (seen numerous times on hobby and photography fora)

"RAW is the only real way to get good photos because it's a non-loss file used when doing post processing."

"Oh yeah? Let's see your RAW processing. Otherwise, stop posting on this forum. You don't know what you're talking about."

The responder didn't attempt to demonstrate why the OP is mistaken, even if in his own opinion, but instead tells the person that unless he can produce even one example, he's illegitimate as a poster about that topic. Nonsense. In the same way, telling a mere priest that his claim that our sun is a ball of hydrogen gas in hydrodynamic equilibrium is not correct because a mere priest has stated it is also an ad hominem.

Did you touch a nerve? Nope. Did you offer a perspective on a public forum that I don't share, or that I believe to be contrary to my own experience? Yup. Discussion is good. Sharing opinions is good. Offering countering opinions to an OP stating an opinion is good.

BTW, my posts do probably get windy...I'll admit it. I have taught professionals and adult learners at the post-secondary level in various subjects, from ethics to leadership theory and organizational behaviour. Those topics get windy of their own accord, and often result in lengthy sentences with multiple clauses and lengthy explanations. I could try to do better.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
The reason I started this post was because I saw comments here and elsewhere from some folks who don't like smoke talk about smoke ruining the effect/illusion etc. but I never saw anyone who likes having smoke say that non-moving people/ cars, multiple suns... ruin the effect and better not to use those. This seemed really odd to me for the reasons I mention above.
However, as I also stated, I will not only be using smoke, but also non-moving people, cars, etc. though I am looking into those little moving car systems available now.
Point being: they’re miniature trains and there’s no real way to make the layout look real with either the smoke or people. Even with a still photograph the people look like little plastic people.
I don’t care: My imagination easily makes those people come alive and move about in a way.


G Scale can put out some pretty convincing smoke, but really for things like smoke and especially water, anything below 1/4 scale is going to be pretty obvious.
 

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It’s your railroad, your rules…..I have a love/hate relationship with sound, and maybe 50 percent of my engines have it. It’s fun when casual visitors come over, as the experience of a model railroad is out of there everyday realm. But when I’m by myself, I prefer the sound of just steel wheels on steel rail. One thing that I did on my old layout was using a old iPod, with a relaxation app, nature sounds, of birds chirping. It was set under my forest, and that was effective in creating the illusion of life being in the forest. It was set to a low volume, and blended in well…cheers…☕🍩
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
It’s your railroad, your rules…..I have a love/hate relationship with sound, and maybe 50 percent of my engines have it. It’s fun when casual visitors come over, as the experience of a model railroad is out of there everyday realm. But when I’m by myself, I prefer the sound of just steel wheels on steel rail. One thing that I did on my old layout was using a old iPod, with a relaxation app, nature sounds, of birds chirping. It was set under my forest, and that was effective in creating the illusion of life being in the forest. It was set to a low volume, and blended in well…cheers…☕🍩

Love the ipod for the forest sounds. Great idea!
 

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The reason I started this post ...
Point being: they’re miniature trains and there’s no real way to make the layout look real with either the smoke or people. Even with a still photograph the people look like little plastic people.
I don’t care: My imagination easily makes those people come alive and move about in a way.
...
Ummmmm.... have you not heard of Shrink Ray Guns???? C'mon man! You're a teacher. Here's how you can make one...




Sorry! I could not resist!:eek::ROFLMAO::LOL:
 
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