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Discussion Starter #21
I've built three "shelf" layouts over the years, along the lines of shunting puzzles. With all of them I should have taken more care in track-laying. My view is that you need to be absolutely anal about getting it right, and even then you will still make mistakes. At least I did. Re buildings, I'm a big fan of the Clever Models card range - they are endlessly customisable. I even went to the trouble of cutting their Quonset hut in half when building it, so I could fit both halves in the two spaces I had available. So if you do get it wrong in terms of not allowing enough space for a building, just view it as an opportunity to get a little creative. :)
Thanks for the advice and mentioning the Clever Models card range. Go to know they are customizable. In the plan I posted, there are buildings on the edge of the layout that look like partial buildings. I haven't seen any buildings that look like partial buildings for sale. Would any of the Clever Models or others fit this type of footprint?
 

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I used the Clever Models O scale "American Steel and Pipe" as a lock-down project (I model in On30 ... easier to see). This building is already designed as a flat. I de-americanised it and rebranded it to suit where I live. It's a bit of an average build (i.e. not very good work on my part, nothing to do with the kit quality) but I'm still pleased with the result. I added a few bits of corrugated iron to cover up some of my blemishes, and used a different door (from another Clever Models kit). If you are new to card modelling, they have some freebies on their website that you can try out before taking the plunge. But it's waaaay cheaper than buying pre-built.

I can't remember where I got the Wood Bros. building. It's just a front-on print, but I used some of the Clever Models methods to 3D-ify it. I'm pretty pleased with that one too.

The track is some Atlas HO code 83 that I bought as part of a biiiiiiig second hand job lot. Operation is via the basic Hornby DCC controller. Turnouts are operated by using the BFFA method (big finger from above). Track is laid (glued) on cork strips. Ballast is real sand/gravel that I have collected over the years. The Bachmann diesels are super good, heavy as bricks, reliable ultra-low speed running, even on my dodgy trackwork.

The design is a modification of what the poms call an "Inglenook" shunting puzzle. Normally the capacity would be 5/3/3 on the sidings and 5 + loco on lead-in. I didn't have space, so I made it 3/2/2 (in theory anyway) for the sidings. The cars are the shorter 18 foot Bachmann On30 models, to try to make it all fit.

554309
 

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Thanks for the advice and mentioning the Clever Models card range. Go to know they are customizable. In the plan I posted, there are buildings on the edge of the layout that look like partial buildings. I haven't seen any buildings that look like partial buildings for sale. Would any of the Clever Models or others fit this type of footprint?
With a razor saw, it's pretty easy to make any building into a low-relief flat. You can also use modular building systems to create them. Or Walthers' Cornerstone line has a number of kits designed for use at the edge of them layout. Look for the term "Background Building" in the kit name.
 
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Discussion Starter #24
With a razor saw, it's pretty easy to make any building into a low-relief flat. You can also use modular building systems to create them. Or Walthers' Cornerstone line has a number of kits designed for use at the edge of them layout. Look for the term "Background Building" in the kit name.
Thanks for mentioning the Cornerstone kits and found some along with others and wanted to post here for any thoughts before purchasing. The first image is going to be the more industrial/town area. with the following kits along the back of the layout from left to right -


The two mid layout buildings are from left to right


The two building more toward the front would be


554877


The other half of the layout is planned to have a more rural look to it

554879


With a saw mill in the back part of layout - Sawmill Outbuildings -- Kit
and a lumber yard in front of layout - Walton and Sons Lumber Company -- Kit - Main Building: 9 x 9 x 4-1/2"; Office: 3 x 4-1/2 x 2-1/2" - built in the seperated building option.

It took more planning to get this far then I thought. Tried to put taller buildings in back on the city side of layout with shorter buildings toward the front. Any thoughts/advice will be appreciated!
 

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I think you've got the right idea. Both my son and I have several Cornerstome kits. They're nicely detailed and go together easily (they say you can snap them together, but I've always cemented everything but the roofs (someday, I will do lighting and interior detailing).

I do see one issue you might have: don't forget that your trains will overhang the track just a bit, and more so on curves. Make sure everything has adequate clearance (and don't be afraid to tweak a kit to make it fit!).
 
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In all sincerity,
~ I still strongly suggest you make it a shelf now, before it gets oddly balanced, scenic-ed, and with ballasted track.
~ As I said prior, a shelf layout, or, 'shelfie' now, needs to be just that at the get go...Your circumventing that, making a table layout first, is, to me, bass-ackwards, leave alone it's width sure don't look like it's gonna take to be resembling a shelf of any kind, which, in that case, you may as well add 4 legs, some X bracing and make it a standard table layout...
~ In finale', she looks too deep to become a shelf. ...if, IF you have the space, you could re-do-it before getting too far in, stretch it out twice as long, thin it out half as wide, keep same track-plan, and have a more soundly-shaped, shelfie... M
 

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In all sincerity,
~ I still strongly suggest you make it a shelf now, before it gets oddly balanced, scenic-ed, and with ballasted track.
~ As I said prior, a shelf layout, or, 'shelfie' now, needs to be just that at the get go...Your circumventing that, making a table layout first, is, to me, bass-ackwards, leave alone it's width sure don't look like it's gonna take to be resembling a shelf of any kind, which, in that case, you may as well add 4 legs, some X bracing and make it a standard table layout...
~ In finale', she looks too deep to become a shelf. ...if, IF you have the space, you could re-do-it before getting too far in, stretch it out twice as long, thin it out half as wide, keep same track-plan, and have a more soundly-shaped, shelfie... M
You still just don't friggin get it. It's NOT EVER going to be mounted as a shelf. It's the style of layout. Now open your mind to a new concept and drop it!
 

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Discussion Starter #28
I think you've got the right idea. Both my son and I have several Cornerstome kits. They're nicely detailed and go together easily (they say you can snap them together, but I've always cemented everything but the roofs (someday, I will do lighting and interior detailing).

I do see one issue you might have: don't forget that your trains will overhang the track just a bit, and more so on curves. Make sure everything has adequate clearance (and don't be afraid to tweak a kit to make it fit!).
Thanks for the tip and didn't consider the trains overhanging the track so will try to account for that. I have wondered about tweaking kits and how hard it is in general. There were a few kits that I wanted to use but wasn't sure if I could make them into a triangular shape. Also, can the train loading side of the train be shifted to the opposite side of the building typically? Again there were some kits I passed on when reviewing websites because the train loading side was not on the side that made sense in my layout but not sure if they could be easily modified.
 

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Then it is a table top layout and not a shelf layout or it'd be on a shelf !! Why call it a shelf layout if it's "NOT EVER going to be mounted as a shelf" !? No ! You still just don't friggin get it !!! IT'S NOT A SHELF LAYOUT..So why call it that ?? !!
 

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@telltale -- because a "shelf" layout is simply a design concept denoting a long, narrow point-to-point style layout. It has nothing to do with how the benchwork is secured -- I could take my shelf layout, stand it on legs in the middle of the room, and it would still be a shelf layout. If I take a table-top layout and suspend it from the ceiling with wires is it suddenly no longer a "tabletop" layout? Of course not, because "tabletop" describes the style of the layout and has nothing to do with whether or not you nailed your track to the kitchen table.

In that same vein, do you believe a stoplight is no longer a stoplight if you mount it on the pole horizontally? By your arguments above you would no longer consider it a valid traffic signal because it doesn't follow your strict concept, but you won't find a judge in the world that will accept your claim if you blow through the intersection. The world isn't black&white and one word can have a variety of meanings.
 

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~ Don't put words in my mouth ! You are wrong ! If it ain't on a shelf it's not a shelf layout !!
It's too wide to be a shelf layout !! If it sits on legs and is not mounted to the wall with angle brackets or some other cantilever support system it ain't a shelf layout !..
Would you like it if you had books on a shelf (you're picturing right now) and your friend came by and said: "Hey ! Nice table you got there with the books on it !" Most would correct him and say: "That's called a shelf that they're on, not a table !"..I am right and you are wrong ! Period..

~ I leap off here as I won't go on putting up with bass-ackwards logic and misuse of:
the queen's English, carpentry terminology, and established model railroading nomenclature !!
 

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~ Don't put words in my mouth ! You are wrong ! If it ain't on a shelf it's not a shelf layout !!
It's too wide to be a shelf layout !! If it sits on legs and is not mounted to the wall with angle brackets or some other cantilever support system it ain't a shelf layout !..
Would you like it if you had books on a shelf (you're picturing right now) and your friend came by and said: "Hey ! Nice table you got there with the books on it !" Most would correct him and say: "That's called a shelf that they're on, not a table !"..I am right and you are wrong ! Period..

~ I leap off here as I won't go on putting up with bass-ackwards logic and misuse of:
the queen's English, carpentry terminology, and established model railroading nomenclature !!
It's not words that you need put in your mouth, but a gag! No, you're not right. Just like with your ridiculous attempt to redefine the concept of a power routing turnout so that you might be right there. These stubborn and narrow-minded rants don't help anyone. But at least you're not belittling someone else, just showing how little you really are. That's it, you're back on my "Ignore" list. I'd strongly advise every other member to put you there as well, so you don't lead anyone else astray with your nonsense.
 

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Didn't I suggest that months ago? It certainly keeps my BP down and my sarcasm in check. Not to mention my foul mouth towards idiots. It also keeps me a member here in good standing.
 

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Didn't I suggest that months ago? It certainly keeps my BP down and my sarcasm in check. Not to mention my foul mouth towards idiots. It also keeps me a member here in good standing.
It doesn't get my BP up. The trolls of the world have no power over me. It's just that I'm tired of wasting my time. He should really consider one of my father's favorite sayings: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
 

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Well it's years too late for him.
 
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