[Chugman]

Another of my favorite topics for you this Sunday morning. That is the subject of crowding on your layout. Said another way, how much is too much?

How much track is too much? Do you ever get to the point where you feel like you must work for a track manufacturer? Is the urge to add just one more mainline or just one more siding too hard to resist? Does every scene look like the trackwork entering into Union Station? Has anyone ever asked why your layout is all track? (Other than your wife? LOL)

Concerning cars and trucks, how much is too much? Does every street of yours look like downtown New York City at rush hour? Even your small towns? Do you have the urge to fill every parking spot and all of your streets? Are your roads and highways grid lock?

In my experience it has been very hard to resist these temptations and you may even ask, why should we? It is after all a hobby and can't we just do as we please? Of course we can, but should we?

One thing that helps me is to look at my scenes in pictures and study them. It is amazing how what you thought looked great in person doesn't look so good in the picture. I always see things that I missed. It may be too many cars or not enough people or just the placement of them doesn't look right.

Here is a picture from my layout that was published in the current special publication by Classic Toy Trains titled "Best Toy Train Layouts". It was used in an article "Keys to a Great Layout on page 7. My layout is not featured in this issue and I was surprised to see my picture in it. My good friend Jack Phelan's layout is one of the ten layouts.

Art

 

[PatKn]

Art, what a great looking scene. You definitely have a good eye for reality. This picture looks like it could have been a photo in Life Magazine in the 50s. I agree with your point. When to add detail and when do you have enough can make a big difference in the look of your layout. It is an art.

 

[Dave Connolly]

Art, what a great looking scene. The ratio of cars, people, and details looks right to my eye in it’s present state. George Selios who in my eyes is probably one top modelers in HO. Admitted that his layout had to much going on detail wise. In his later sections he did less and felt it looked better.
On my own RR. I don’t have an abundance of track. My mainline I’m happy with. Wouldn’t change a thing. At the time. Not a lot of consideration on sidings and where they should be such during construction. 30 years ago. Finances only allowed spending just to complete the next 10 feet or so. On a budget I couldn’t afford to buy all the track and benchwork at once. Not a lot of thought on industries either. With command control years away. I was happy just to get the trains running.
I’m a big believer in rural scenes. Between the cities or towns. You need something in between to make believe the train is traveling some distance.

 

[Yellowstone Special]

Art, that is the best looking photo of an urban street scene with a railroad crossing I've seen. You have a perfect balance of everything. Looks great!


Many O scalers, because of the size of O scale trains, tend to crowd their layouts with too much track. On their layouts, every available space is filled with extra track to accommodate more trains.


With N scale, not so much. Because of the tiny size of N, one doesn't have to overcrowd layout space with track, so the scenes have more space, allowing more realism.

 

[towdog]

Art, that is the best looking photo of an urban street scene with a railroad crossing I've seen. You have a perfect balance of everything. Looks great!


Many O scalers, because of the size of O scale trains, tend to crowd their layouts with too much track. On their layouts, every available space is filled with extra track to accommodate more trains.


With N scale, not so much. Because of the tiny size of N, one doesn't have to overcrowd layout space with track, so the scenes have more space, allowing more realism.

Yes, for most O-scale modelers, unless they have a massive layout, it's really hard to not crowd it. I feel like at this scale, it wants to be a toy train like, despite your best efforts at realistic modeling. HO and N make it so much easier to shoot for realism.

And you want to put all the diecast cars, all the buildings, all the vignettes onto your layout. The best middle ground seems to be just to continually swap out parts of your layout. Swap out your diecast every once in a while, turn a scene over to winter with the seasons, etc. I've ever seen some ingenuity where people have hidden a Christmas-theme portion of their layout by having a configurable scenery piece inserted over it over the rest of the year. This not only keeps things interesting, but allows the modeler to enjoy the most amount of things they want to do on their layout in the small space that O-gauge requires.

 

[Spence]

First of all Art that is a beautiful scene & photo. I must say that you have been asking some thought provoking questions. I must admit that mine is a toy train layout and usually I just do what bI like. I remember Fred Dole telling me years ago that there's no right or wrong. It's your layout and you can do anything you want.

 

[seayakbill]

Art, fantastic photo.

My layout is more of an operating / display layout. Never have taken the time to take it to a super realistic layout. I keep saying someday but it probably will not happen.

Bill

 

[SantaFeJim]

Art, another GREAT topic. Excellent picture, I will comment more later. :thumbsup:

 

[beachhead2]

Yes, great scene. You are so right about noticing things in pictures that you don't notice otherwise. I have taken many pictures to post on forums. Only when I see the photo do I notice some details (and many times errors/flaws).

 

[Bryan Moran]

I know it is tough. Your comment about too much track is my issue and may be an issue with smaller (17 x 8) layouts like mine. On my inner loop, I spun off 1 into 3 tracks for about 10 feet because I could. I had leftover bridges and stuff and I wanted to maximize use of all components.

I have a lot of building kits, grain elevators coming and when it is all said and done, I think it will be too crowded and I will have to remove an item or two.

It's all about space. I think if I had a 34 x 7 layout I would have "stops" between attractions but with half that space, I am limited.

 

[LionelFan]

Art,

An amazing photo!

Thanks for posting it, and now I have a higher goal to shoot for with my railroad.

 

[Yellowstone Special]

I must admit that mine is a toy train layout and usually I just do what bI like. I remember Fred Dole telling me years ago that there's no right or wrong. It's your layout and you can do anything you want.

Well yes, Spence, we all do what we like and there is no right or wrong way for each individual model railroader. It's whatever that model railroader wants to do with his layout.

It's just that in HO an N scales, there are more serious real model railroaders who strive to make their layouts look authentic. It's more difficult to do that in the larger O scale, mainly because of that dog gone 3rd rail, unless you're an O scale 2-rail modeler.

Most of us old men in the hobby are in it because it's a throwback to our youth when we ran Lionel trains as younger kids, with me being one of them.

But Art's photo shows what can be done in 3-rail O scale with patience, skill, and an eye for detail and balance. :thumbsup:

 

[Chugman]

Thanks for the compliments and the great comments.

I just want to add an additional thought that occurred to me. I have had a lot of fun running my trains before I was ready to get serious about scenery. I took pictures and videos and had operating sessions. But as soon as I began to get scenes completed with scenery, it greatly increased my enjoyment of the layout. Of course it made the trains look better to have scenery, but it is more fun to run trains too. Pictures and videos are obviously more interesting as well.

Next steps are to go back and try to super detail areas. I have recently given names to all areas of the layout to aid in communications in operating sessions. The dispatcher might now say "Milwaukee Meat Train proceed to Spencer Junction and wait for clearance to the mainline." Also I plan to add mile markers everywhere. I will use posts and add mileage numbers on relay cabinets where possible.

My advice is if you are holding back on doing scenery or feel intimidated by it, it is really the easiest part of the whole experience. It is almost impossible to screw it up and if you aren't happy with what you have done, do it over. I feel that it will give you the biggest bang for your buck that you will ever get in this hobby.

Art

 

[SantaFeJim]

Guys, the link below shows a beautiful train, on a LARGE club layout. Scenery is a bit sparse, but probably a good representation of the actual landscape.

What's missing... People - EVERY town is a ghost town, all the industries and farms are abandon.
What's missing... Animals - no cattle, no cats, dogs, no wildlife
What's missing... Vehicles - No cars, busses, trucks, motorcycles

Why don't the members spot this and fix it. IMHO that would that would take this layout up several notches.


See for yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySQyRQdn6mY&feature=push-fr&attr_tag=3LKdt6FakfbHSSxe:6

 

[Lehigh74]

I’m one of those people that loaded up on track with little thought of scenery. I manage to add scenery between tracks, but I am surely limited to what I can do.

 

[AFGP9]

Thanks for the compliments and the great comments.

I just want to add an additional thought that occurred to me. I have had a lot of fun running my trains before I was ready to get serious about scenery. I took pictures and videos and had operating sessions. But as soon as I began to get scenes completed with scenery, it greatly increased my enjoyment of the layout. Of course it made the trains look better to have scenery, but it is more fun to run trains too. Pictures and videos are obviously more interesting as well.

Next steps are to go back and try to super detail areas. I have recently given names to all areas of the layout to aid in communications in operating sessions. The dispatcher might now say "Milwaukee Meat Train proceed to Spencer Junction and wait for clearance to the mainline." Also I plan to add mile markers everywhere. I will use posts and add mileage numbers on relay cabinets where possible.

My advice is if you are holding back on doing scenery or feel intimidated by it, it is really the easiest part of the whole experience. It is almost impossible to screw it up and if you aren't happy with what you have done, do it over. I feel that it will give you the biggest bang for your buck that you will ever get in this hobby.

Art

What you said about doing scenery is so right. I actually plan my layouts around the scenery. I sort of plan the track plan I want but then always let the scenery dictate where I can lay track. I then start cutting and fitting. If I want more track then just as in the real thing, I cut the scenery which is blue foam.
The layout I have now will be my last. I still changes things, add things or go back and super detail other scenes.

You made a comment in a post about photography and how a picture can bring out details you never saw before. I couldn't agree more. It seems every time I take a picture I find some detail that needs attention. I have actually started taking pictures for just that reason.... to find missed details!! It works to enhance what you thought was a completed scene.
That's a very nice photo of your down town area by the way. I am guilty of having too many vehicles on my small town streets. Since I have always lived in a small town, there isn't that many vehicles as I have in my layout town at any time. Gotta change that... maybe. I use my layout vehicles to help establish the year era.

Kenny

 

[Chugman]

Jim that is a stunning layout, but you are right about the missing details. Maybe they just haven't gotten to that stage yet, but I hope that they do. It is hard to imagine with the talent that they obviously have for overall scenery that they would fail to recognize this.

How is your beautiful layout progressing?

Art

 

[Chugman]

What you said about doing scenery is so right. I actually plan my layouts around the scenery. I sort of plan the track plan I want but then always let the scenery dictate where I can lay track. I then start cutting and fitting. If I want more track then just as in the real thing, I cut the scenery which is blue foam.
The layout I have now will be my last. I still changes things, add things or go back and super detail other scenes.

You made a comment in a post about photography and how a picture can bring out details you never saw before. I couldn't agree more. It seems every time I take a picture I find some detail that needs attention. I have actually started taking pictures for just that reason.... to find missed details!! It works to enhance what you thought was a completed scene.
That's a very nice photo of your down town area by the way. I am guilty of having too many vehicles on my small town streets. Since I have always lived in a small town, there isn't that many vehicles as I have in my layout town at any time. Gotta change that... maybe. I use my layout vehicles to help establish the year era.

Kenny

Kenny you bring up a very interesting point about using vehicles to establish time eras. We do that when we are trying to determine the age of a picture of a downtown by the age of the cars on the streets. And since the buildings don't change nearly as much, we can switch to a different age just by changing out the cars.

On my layout I have different time zones. Most areas are in the 60's and a few are modern era. I have done the same with my trains by running 60's era with first generation diesels and famous name passenger trains and then switch things out to modern unit trains and Amtrak passenger trains.

Art

 

[Yellowstone Special]

I’m one of those people that loaded up on track with little thought of scenery. I manage to add scenery between tracks, but I am surely limited to what I can do.

View attachment 515296

Wow Lehigh, that appears to be a lot of track and a very high elevated track(s). Nice layout, though.

The issue with high elevated tracks paralleling other tracks below, is that if there's ever a derailment up above, the derailing elevated train could come crashing down on the trains below.

That happened on my younger brother's layout back in the 1980's and he ended up lowering the elevated track so that if it ever happened again, the train wouldn't have so far to fall. Not to mention his repair bill for the damaged trains.

 

[Millstonemike]

I’m one of those people that loaded up on track with little thought of scenery. I manage to add scenery between tracks, but I am surely limited to what I can do.

View attachment 515296

Well the scene in the photo looks good with the right amount of scenery for a rural section.