[Madman]

Sounds like you're in the same came as I. Here's a video of my layout.

 

[Madman]

Frankly, my opinion is that shorter locos and rolling stock look much better on the tighter curves. I learned this many years ago when I was building my garden railway.

 

[Madman]

Have you passed you plans by the "BOSS" ? He or she looks way to comfortable and I don't think your rolling shelves will be too welcomed.....LOL

 

[Madman]

If I may interject with an opinion. I have had both the post-war diesel fueling station and the remake. I still have the post-war 415. The remake is long gone. Even though the original is noisy, it operates better than the remake. At least on my layout it does.

 

[Madman]

I here you on that. I get leds shoplights now. i like to plug them in. The chepo fluorescent ones burn out the balists too quickly now anyways. And its just easier to get the light bar with the leds built in and scrap it when it breaks. So unplug it and toss it. We will see. I have to sister up a few beams first. I knew this when I bought the house. Buildings inspecter missed it. Not hard, just a lot of time. And since I dont want to do it again, might as well make it bullet proff.

Been there, done that, I don't know how many times and ways. I'm a retired carpenter. I've seen it all. Home inspectors.....They miss alot or don't want to see it. When I retired I looked into being a home inspector. It's a click, in my opinion.

 

[Madman]

Framing lumber used to be cut to the half inch, i.e. a 2" x 8" used to be 1 1/2" x 7 1/2". Its been some time since this change was made. 2x4s, & 2x6s are still 3 1/2" and 5 1/2" respectively. 2x8s, 2x10s and 2x12s are all milled to the quarter inch, 7 1/4", 9 1/4" & 11 1/4".

Up until the late '60s framing lumber was milled to 5/8". So a 2x4 was 1 5/8" x 3 5/8" and so on. When laying out we had to account for 13/16" on the first stud or joist. With the half inch dimension after the '60s it was just a bit simpler, only having to deduct 3/4".

So it goes like this. When laying out studs, for instance, you hook your tape on the end of the sill plate, measure 16" and mark 15 1/4" and put the "X" on the right. Then you mark 32" and mark 31 1/4" and so on every sixteen inches until you reach the end of the particular wall you're laying out. So when you apply the sheathing, which is 48" wide, the first sheet winds up on the center of the fourth stud.

 

[Madman]

Ok, its cold, and i cant source the wood I need to fix my joists, so I will see if I can order something next week, or buy much bigger and cut it. Unfortunately, since its a ranch home, the wood I need are 2x8 x14 and I can not find it. Even with those Inwould have to cut them to 7 1/4 inch , and some are 7 inch. Crazy. Since this is a solo job, I dont want bigger lumber. So, we wait. I have time. Meanwhile, im thinking of doing a smaller campground, and still thinking about the 054 curves or just make an island layout and do a 072 loop. Planning is the key. Im leaning on the 054. I also need to see what works in my 022 switch box. I will need more switches, but have no idea what I have thats operational. I do Have a spare spot for ellectric, so that can go for a light and maybe 2 two gang boxes for outlets. Ill just run a 20 amp breaker, and that should be good for a few transformers. And maybe a work bench for a dremal, and a drill press. Or not, who knows. I also need to take stock of what I have, bridges, accessories, and come up what what I will use and what I need to get. I am going to look through the plasticville box to see if I have any travel trailors. I was going to buy the 3 set, but I may allready have them.

You could use 3/4" sheathing plywood to strengthen the joists. Each joist gets the plywood applied to both sides. Just be sure to stagger the joints from one side of the joist to the other. This way you can rip each piece to the exact size of the joist.

A more expensive way would be to use LVLs. They're much stronger than solid wood joist.

 

[Madman]

Atually scatch that, that dosen't work eaither. I need more coffee. 2x 15 x 14s maybe

You may need even more coffee. A 2 x 16 or 15 ? Doesn't exist.....😂.....Here's another, although not ideal solution. Install a beam, wood or steel, perpendicular to the joists. Support the new beam with posts. You have now cut the joist span in half, but have posts to deal with. It's less costly than sistering each joist.

 

[Madman]

I just measured a 2x8 at 7 1/8" and a 2x12 at 11 1/2" scraps left by the previous owner. Have no idea the vintage.

Now I thoroughly confused Thanks for that

Yes I know. The mean dimensions are as I described. But there are tolerances also. Framing a house is not quite as straight forward as one might believe. These tolerances must be dealt with every day. Experience is the best teacher.

 

[Madman]

Ok , so some pictures. And to be honest, I have no clue how this would happen. For me the joists are undersized. But not overly so. Only thing I can think of is overloading the system and bounce over age split the joists. I will go today and get some lumber, still cold out but I can at least get the material needed. I get the knots in the wood added to this, but look at the last pic. No knots, but the beam split anyway. Weird. I will add about 6 sistered beams, if i have the room. View attachment 574898 View attachment 574899 View attachment 574900 View attachment 574901

So are these 2 x 8 joists spanning the entire 14 feet without any intermediate support ? Rule of thumb is that the height of a joist can span double that in feet. i.e. a 2 x 8 inch joist can span 16 feet. But there will be alot of flex, up and down in that floor system. When I built our addition forty odd years ago, I used 2 x 10s @ 16" on center to span 16 feet and 14 feet in two rooms. I never like the slight bounce in the floors. About ten years ago, I installed 4 x 6 inch beams under each of these two rooms, cutting the spans in half. Vast improvement.

The longitudinal checking shown in your photos, of the joists isn't what I would be concerned about. However the one joist with the large knot and check that runs into the knot I would definitely reinforce.

As I mentioned in a previous post, if installing a beam down the center of the room and supporting the beam with adjustable Lally columns is doable for you,I would go that route.

 

[Madman]

I got to sister them up. The cracks in some in some the whole length of the span. I'll add as many as i can, addtionally I will add full boards in between them to help distribute the weights. I did look add adding a support under the middle also, its not out of the question, but would be harder to accomplish given my stairs are in that area. The sistering should work if I can get the full length boards in there. Glue and bolt. I can see light in between some of the cracks, not visavle in the pictures. So the span is bascicly suported by a 2x4 in some spots. The real test was havibg my daughter jump on the floor while I watched the cracks open and close. Scarry. It will not collapse, or sag anytime soon. But I rather fix it before putting the layout underneath it. Lol. For once in my life I am thibkibg ahead of time!

I ''m sure it will work out. Please let me know how it goes. If I can be of any assistance, consultation wise, I am glad to help.

 

[Madman]

Either that or the whole house might go tumbling down.
But are you a Fireman?
(He knows what I mean.)

What's all this talk about a fireman ?

 

[Madman]

Ok new hair brained idea, to fit in the larger curves. 054, not the 072 just yet, how about a walk way around the outside of the table, and conecting the table runs to a shelf run. So sort of like this rough drawing. This will give me the area to walk around the layout and allow the curves I want. The problems, layout ideas, will the dead space cause problems. And by that visually, my layout is more toy then real, but will a giant space be a problem? And where to locate the buildings for the town? There has to be a town! Lol. For the answer's to these questions tune in next week to I have no clue what I'm View attachment 576722 doing!

Have you herd of Railmodeler ? It's an on line program for designing layouts in every gauge and type of track. I spent the thirty dollars or so and used it to design my layout.

 

[Madman]

I dont have a computer. Just my phone. Lol.

Many years ago, when I was doing "O" gauge, the first time, everything was done with a pencil and paper. This time I was resisting the digital method until I tried Railmodeller Express, the free version of Railmodeller. The free version only allows up to fifty pieces of track to be arranged on a page.

Maybe I can help. Do you know the exact dimensions of your proposed layout ?

 

[Madman]

My old layout had only 2 feeds per track, and no noticeable drop, execpt where i wanted it. I moved the lock ons so the train slowed on the downhill. So i get it. Proper pin placement, and I liked the dielectric grease on the pins. And i did use speaker wire, lol so 18 or 22 guage, but i think it was all copper. Not sure if the legacy stuff will transmit on CCA as well. But i am not an ellecrrical dc guy. Ac I know, dc not so much. I will need the breaker too. If I go old school z dub. I think Ill get a roll of 500 ft 16/2 speaker wire CCA.

DC, AC. All you need to know is black to black, white to white and payday is Friday. Believe me, I've worked with plenty of electricians in my career as a carpenter, and that's about their mentality.....LOL So I'm sure you will master DC.....😂

 

[Madman]

Lol, yea, they got to get disconected and moved. No time today, work tomorrow. And i usally like to start electrical / plumbing stuff when I have a few days off incase I disconect/ short out something important, like the fridge.

Do it now. Don't leave loose ends. One of my wife's complaints, over the years, is that I always leave some small detail undone.

 

[Madman]

Just don't have any party's like this.

It's called harmonic motion. The reason soldiers break cadence when marching over a bridge is to prevent such motion which could cause the bridge to collapse.

 

[Madman]

On previous layouts, way back in the 1980s, I inserted extra ties that I made from scrap wood. I even made ties from sheet rubber that was left over from a job I was working on. The rubber was just over a quarter inch thick, so it fit perfectly under the "O" gauge rails.

I found that the extra ties enhanced the look of tubular track. However, on my present layout, I will not be installing extra ties. Since my layout is an operating accessory type of display, the extra ties are a PITA when it comes to relocating an accessory, for one reason or another.

 

[Madman]

Solid 4 x 4s ! You do realize that your trains are miniatures.....LOL Seriously, it looks great.

 

[Madman]

Those bases look like Pola large scale bases. How big are they ?